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Post by jman on Aug 6, 2008 22:58:49 GMT -7
It seems like my BFD can be clipped too easily. When I calibrate the input level, I always have to set the LFE level to it's lowest to avoid clipping.
This was the case with my pioneer 1014 receiver as pre-pro and now with my Lexicon MC-1.
The problem is that even at -10 LFE, some movies still clip the BFD on loud scenes when listened to at reference level. The IB is fine but the clipped signal is clearly audible when the meters show red. I wish I could leave the BFD out of the chain but I need a few bands of correction to smooth out some large room modes.
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Post by ThomasW on Aug 7, 2008 7:02:09 GMT -7
First forget about 'calibrating' anything. This word was coined for some stupid reason instead of simply saying setting output levels.
Clipping the BFD is caused by it being fed too high a signal from the sub out.
Are the clip indicators on the power amp lighting up? If not turn down the sub out signal going to the BFD and raise the 'gain' levels on the EP2500.
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Post by jman on Aug 7, 2008 10:24:01 GMT -7
No the amp never clips. The problem is that I have the LFE on my pre-pro at lowest (-10) and on some movies the BFD still clips.
The only "fix" is to turn the master volume down.
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Post by ThomasW on Aug 7, 2008 12:02:49 GMT -7
Which 'Operating Level' position are you using for the switches on the back of the BFD, +4 dB, or -10dB?
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Post by jman on Aug 7, 2008 19:37:14 GMT -7
I've always had it at the -10 setting. I tried the +4 (studio) setting just 2 days ago to see how it reacted to that. Oddly it didn't seem to do anything, not even a change in input/output levels.
The titles that really clip the BFD hard are Master and Commander DTS and The Haunting DTS. With both of those the meter goes into the red and it immediately creates an ugly, distorted sound.
I'm going to remove the BFD from the chain and just see what the movies sound like without the clipping.
The IB is very efficient, the gain knobs on my EP2500 are below half and I'm still about 6-8db "hot" when calibrating the Lexicon.
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Post by jman on Aug 10, 2008 22:48:37 GMT -7
I took the BFD out and ran direct from the Lexicon to the ep2500. No problems with clipping no matter how loud I go. I then inserted my ART351 just to see if it would have problems with the input level and it was fine. With the BFD I had the LFE set to -10 and it was still clipping in scenes with intense bass. Now I have the LFE at -5 and it's fine. Wish I knew why the BFD is clipping so easily.
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Post by ThomasW on Aug 11, 2008 7:01:00 GMT -7
Although we don't often hear about defective BFDs it's possible yours is...?
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Post by jman on Oct 8, 2008 19:04:39 GMT -7
I took another kick at this unit today and no luck.
With the input set to -10 (consumer level), the f**ker clips at the input of the BFD when seeing reference level LFE from the pre-pro.
If I set it to +4 (studio level), it doesn't clip but it sounds weak and just plain odd. My Lexicon is already at -5 for the LFE and my old Pioneer receiver did the same thing.
I had no filters setup so basically the signal was going through with no change.
When I remove the BFD and run the signal direct to the amp it's absolutely clean and sounds great. If I insert the ART351, it sounds the same and gives me at least crude EQ ability.
So is the unit defective? Audio does go in and out and the eq's do work when I tweak with REW. It just can't handle anything near reference level input so the unit is unusable.
I don't have access to another BFD for comparison.
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 8, 2008 19:29:12 GMT -7
It's impossible to know what's going on without putting the unit on a bench. So the options are have it looked at by a tech or buy another for comparison.
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Post by afwjam on Oct 19, 2008 0:59:22 GMT -7
I have the same problem in my setup. Not sure what to do....
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Post by jman on Apr 2, 2010 14:10:47 GMT -7
BFD clipping redux-
I changed my setup recently with a Marchand crossover for the mains. Previously, I had the LFE crossover at 120hz and all channels set to "small" and crossed at 120hz.
The new setup has the LFE crossover at 80hz, mains set "small" but crossed at 40hz. The other channels are "small" and crossed at 80hz or 120hz as suitable.
I put the BFD back into the LFE chain and now it operates properly with only yellow input bars flashing on the loudest transients.
So I believe that there was just too much bass being sent to the LFE channel with all the re-routing. The mains keep most of their signal now and the 80-120hz isn't covered by the IB either. I also high-pass the IB around 10-12hz, which slashes out about 10db in the 4-10hz range.
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Post by jbl4645 on Mar 25, 2011 4:51:31 GMT -7
I've always had it at the -10 setting. I tried the +4 (studio) setting just 2 days ago to see how it reacted to that. Oddly it didn't seem to do anything, not even a change in input/output levels. The titles that really clip the BFD hard are Master and Commander DTS and The Haunting DTS. With both of those the meter goes into the red and it immediately creates an ugly, distorted sound. I'm going to remove the BFD from the chain and just see what the movies sound like without the clipping. The IB is very efficient, the gain knobs on my EP2500 are below half and I'm still about 6-8db "hot" when calibrating the Lexicon. Hello I was looking around for something way different, while browsing the boards I noticed this thread and Behringer FBQ2496 that I’m also using. Set to +4db it will reduce the level and clipping and cross-talking the clipped signal into the other channel. I happen to have Master ad Commander on DVD (not the bass restricted bluray I won’t touch that to shoplift it) I also have The Haunting both DVD are on region2 and the levels shouldn’t vary that much between region1 and 2. What fader level do you have the MC-1 set at and what is the LFE.1 set at and do you use the LFE.1 as only LFE.1 (no bass management) switch it off or simply reduce the volume otherwise you risk damaging you’re equipment, and it will be you’re loss, I think you’ve got it way to high above the standards of what it should be. I happen to have my system turned on at the moment and if you care to give me some information on which scene is clipping the FBQ2496 I’d run a few tests on my end granted we don’t have the same AVP/AVP, I’m sure the test will come near enough. Edit: I forgot to mention I’m not using the FBQ2496 for sub bass at the moment its been used for left and right PEQ along with GEQ3102 that is being used for the centre 1/3 31 band EQ and LFE.1 is being used on channel 2 on the GEQ3102 until I get my new order, FBQ3102 in the post sometime late of the month when its in stock. So I’d have to switch XLR leads around not a big deal. You tell me which chapter and time and I’ll have look. But when running the LFE.1 on the GEQ3102 it hardly goes over 0db. I have HP filters set in for LCR on the DCX2496 on input ABC to tame some of the bright mid to highs I don’t bother with the THX re-eq its subtle and it doesn’t help that much. |
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Post by jman on Apr 1, 2011 20:56:30 GMT -7
I don't have the clipping issues now. Before I had all channels crossed at 120hz and it was dumping too much signal into the BFD1124. I could back the LFE off to keep the meter out of the red but then it wasn't getting enough signal to the amps and sounded weak.
Now I have different speakers and the mains and center run down to 40, sides to 120 and rears to 40. No problems with the BFD now.
Next upgrade is to build cabs for the 6 2226 I just got. Those will go on the front 2 channels for now, maybe the center later if I can find a nice JBL compression driver and horn. That will add a crapload of mid-bass headroom that is a bit lacking still.
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