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Post by mraub1 on Nov 27, 2005 20:58:07 GMT -7
I know there are cheaper equalization alternatives, but it is the Christmas season and I just ordered a Velodyne SMS-1 subwoofer equalizer as a present for myself. A Velodyne representative who frequents AVS Forum said he couldn't think of a reason why this gadget wouldn't work with an IB, but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone else has tried one and maybe get some hints on it's best use with an IB (2-15" PE drivers in a manifold serving a fairly small HT room).
Thanks,
MIKE
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Post by ThomasW on Nov 27, 2005 23:15:24 GMT -7
No one has ever posted about having one (they haven't been available that long).
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Post by mraub1 on Dec 6, 2005 10:01:25 GMT -7
This is one slick gadget. Not only can you change just about every subwoofer parameter that exists, you get instant feedback on whether you've made things better or worse. The fact that you can feed the test signal to your mains as well as the sub allows you to adjust the top end of the sub's range to blend in best with the main or satellite speaker.
After playing around with it a bit last night I plan to reread the manual and try for a final adjustment this weekend. If I can figure how to post screenshots I'll do that.
This is not the cheapest EQ alternative, but justifiable (at least in my mind) by the huge amount of money I saved in going IB over box subs with comparable performance. Velodyne has a PDF of the SMS-1 manual on their website, if anyone else is interested in this product.
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Post by poppabirdy on Dec 6, 2005 12:12:43 GMT -7
One feature this device appears to have that is not in the BFD is a rumble filter. If I'm reading the manual correctly, everything below 15 hz is filtered out. With some DVD's encoding crazy super low frequencies this seems like good protection against over excursion. I also like the idea of presets, a remote control, and the ability to display the control panel on the TV screen.
What price range is the SMS-1?
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Post by ThomasW on Dec 6, 2005 14:56:55 GMT -7
Lowest price I've seen is $600
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Post by mraub1 on Dec 9, 2005 15:30:04 GMT -7
The 15 hz filter is not defeatable and it's effect is easily seen in the plots generated by the unit. Thomas is correct on the price. The unit is very new and there's no substantial price competition yet. Distribution is still very spotty. However, Outlaw Audio is now selling this unit and I got mine about a week after I ordered it from them. One feature this device appears to have that is not in the BFD is a rumble filter. If I'm reading the manual correctly, everything below 15 hz is filtered out. With some DVD's encoding crazy super low frequencies this seems like good protection against over excursion. I also like the idea of presets, a remote control, and the ability to display the control panel on the TV screen. What price range is the SMS-1?
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Post by poppabirdy on Dec 9, 2005 19:32:33 GMT -7
I really like what I see in the SMS-1.
I wonder if the microphone can be used with PC based measurement tools like room eq wizard. mraub1, can you tell what OEM brand and model the mic is or has velodyne relabeled the mic?
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Post by mraub1 on Dec 12, 2005 13:17:49 GMT -7
The mic has "Velodyne" silk screened on it. However it looks 100% identical to the Behringer ECM8000 microphone, even down to the fluted indentations near the capsule. There's a very knowledgeable Velodyne rep who is who frequents the Velodyne thread at avsforum.com (look under the subwoofer section of the audio forums). He could probably advise on the frequency response of the mic. I really like what I see in the SMS-1. I wonder if the microphone can be used with PC based measurement tools like room eq wizard. mraub1, can you tell what OEM brand and model the mic is or has velodyne relabeled the mic?
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Post by pikeman71760 on Dec 12, 2005 17:35:00 GMT -7
I just found out on the AVS forum from Bruce Hall that the SMS-1 has a 15hz subsonic filter that cannot be defeated. I am using 2 avalanche 18s in an IB and I think I would want that full extension. Should this be a deal killer?. ( I like everything else about it.) Thanks a lot. Sam Zeoli
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carl
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by carl on Dec 13, 2005 7:54:05 GMT -7
I can't imagine why anyone with an IB would want a device that cuts off signal below 15Hz. I measured mine last weekend and can get 106dB (uncorrected!) at 14' from the IB at 10Hz. That's without the amp gain all the way up. Movies like War of the Worlds has a lot of info down deep. Maybe my thinking's all wacky.
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Post by ThomasW on Dec 13, 2005 8:29:19 GMT -7
If someone has a "small" IB then using a 15Hz filter is probably a good idea. For those having larger IB's, multiple 15"s or 18" this isn't necessary.
Eventually I'll get someone design a DIY 8Hz-10Hz active filter. This should be insurance for bigger IB's.
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Post by formica on Dec 13, 2005 10:08:16 GMT -7
Eventually I'll get someone design a DIY 8Hz-10Hz active filter. This should be insurance for bigger IB's. The 8-10Hz range sounds like a good range.... but all this talk about subsonic filters has got me thinking. Thomas, in all your years in actively participating in these forums… how frequent has bottoming an IB been? Anyone incur damage to their drivers? Maybe I'm putting to much attention to this... but my IB isn't up and running yet (room construction is taking quite some time). I have bottomed a regular ported DIY sub... and I wouldn't want to risk it with my new IB. ROb
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Post by ThomasW on Dec 13, 2005 10:18:22 GMT -7
There have only been one or two instances of bottoming (no damage). And those were people using two relatively low excursion 15"'s. I can't remember if they were PE-IB15" or DVC-15"s in a moderately large room.
Given the stuff showing up in WOTW, I think the recommendation are is going to be 4-15" in all but the smallest rooms.
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Post by mraub1 on Dec 14, 2005 19:44:51 GMT -7
Here's a trace of the best I've been able to do so far with the SMS-1. I've run out of adjustment range in some areas. Any suggestions for improvement? My traceThanks, MIKE edit by moderator, The forum software can only parse a link of a certain length. So please use the proper code to create a hyperlink otherwise people have to cut and paste the URL. You can use the modify command to see how these are made.
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Post by ThomasW on Dec 14, 2005 20:19:40 GMT -7
The huge dip is a room mode it can't be fixed by boosting the signal. The only way to fix it is by cutting all the frequencies around it. And unfortunately I don't think you have the flexibility to fix it given the 1/3rd octave EQ points.
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Post by pikeman71760 on Dec 15, 2005 8:21:02 GMT -7
The sms-1 is a parametric eq. The bands can be changed to any frequency you want. This seems like a great product except for the undefeatable 15hz subsonic filter. I am using 2 avalanche 18s and want all the low freq extension I can get.
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Post by mraub1 on Dec 15, 2005 12:36:48 GMT -7
I tried moving the sliders to attack the 28hz dip, but it didn't improve things much. Even with a less than perfect trace, the sub sure sounds good. My previous attempts at equalization (with an Audio Control Richter Scale III) were much worse, at least from a subjective sound point of view. One disadvantage of an IB is that you can't move it around to try and cancel out room nodes. On the other hand, I think accoustical studies have shown that relatively narrow dips in frequency response are not that audible and are better than large spikes. The huge dip is a room mode it can't be fixed by boosting the signal. The only way to fix it is by cutting all the frequencies around it. And unfortunately I don't think you have the flexibility to fix it given the 1/3rd octave EQ points.
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Post by ThomasW on Dec 15, 2005 12:53:48 GMT -7
The idea is not to attack any dip. The way to approach this is lower the frequencies on the sides of any dip.
The best approach for any kind of sub is a combination of bass traps and EQ.
You'll find that changing the measuring position 3' one way or another might make a big change in the plot. It better to average several postions than to optimize everything for a single position.
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Post by poppabirdy on Dec 26, 2005 9:29:39 GMT -7
FYI:
According to BruceHall, over at the AVS Forum Velodyne EQ forum, Velodyne will be updating the software on the SMS-1 to allow the rumble filter to be set lower than 15hz.
I addition, they are working on updating the software so that a full-frequency response can be measured and displayed.
All the best,
Poppabirdy
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Post by rnrgagne on Mar 4, 2006 20:58:24 GMT -7
I'm using the SMS-1 and if you've got the bucks for it it's an excellent EQ for a guy like me that doesn't have a full grasp of the whole EQ thing or that doesn't have the time to learn and implement.
It's possible that I could get better results than what I've gotten with the auto set-up, but the results that I did get are excellent. The graph is pretty flat - as flat as anything I've seen anyways. And it was literally as easy as 1-2-3; which are the numbers you punch on the remote to activate it.
Before I decided to build my IB I was very apprehensive about the whole EQ thing and that apprehension almost stopped me from doing it. If anyone else is in the same boat this is a great solution and once you learn more you still have the ability to tweak it further.
As a parallel reference, I have a Yamaha RX-Z9 which has the YPAO auto-room EQ, and unlike the SMS-1, I can't stand what it does to the sound so I just let it set the level and distance, which it does very well.
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