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Post by back on Jul 26, 2009 7:55:53 GMT -7
i notice that you all guys recomend ep2500. never heard it but being an owner of ep1500 i have to say it`s weak point was bass. after that i bought a crown ce2000. wow what an impact. day and night with the behringer. i wonder why crown isn`t mentioned in this site. they are known as bass kings at the pro world. after the crown i build the hypex ucd 700hg www.hypex.nl/they are expensive but if you want the best you have to pay it. and they are great amps for music too not only bass. |
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 26, 2009 13:56:50 GMT -7
The Crown CE2000 is now discontinued but was at least three and sometimes four times the price of the EP2500.
The Crown offered slightly less RMS power than the EP2500.
Why would the Crown offer better sound quality?
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Post by back on Jul 26, 2009 14:49:16 GMT -7
yes the crown was much more expensive but the bass slam
it have is unbeleivable.
the power is less only on paper.
damping factor for ep2500 is 300 and for crown 400
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 26, 2009 19:22:44 GMT -7
www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/damping-factor-effects-on-system-responseI'm seated at dinner with a Senior Power applications engineer from Infineon Technologies. He's a twice published member of the AES. He's been designing and building power amps since the late 1960's. He was one of the lead engineers for the Crown K series of amps. Needless to say this man knows a thing or two about the subject. When asked about the topic of damping factor and IB subs he says ..... "Anything higher than a damping factor of 50 is a non-issue when the sub has a Qtc of 0.5 or lower. The 100 point difference in damping factor between 300 vs 400 is irrevelevant" Now back to eating my steak.... 
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Post by afwjam on Jul 26, 2009 22:06:22 GMT -7
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 26, 2009 23:17:43 GMT -7
True service to humanity to interrupt one's dinner to respond to the IB Cult forum.  It looks like you're going to fail badly at the curmudgeon course final exams but don't feel too bad about it.  Here's a link to real test of the EP2500: ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=506Would this be a bad time to mention blind A/B/X testing? ;D |
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Post by back on Jul 28, 2009 7:05:58 GMT -7
i already mentioned i never hac an ib sub and this is going to be my first one.
my experience is based at normal subs and big speakers.
it`s good to hear that ib subs don`t need a good amp to perform
their best.
it will save me the money to build another hypex.
the damping factor 50 that your friend suggested is the amps or
the real?
p.s.the test says that the ep 2500 doesn`t meet the specs at
2ohms.
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 29, 2009 8:20:55 GMT -7
it`s good to hear that ib subs don`t need a good amp to perform their best.  He understands damping factor is but one of many things to consider when choosing an amp. This is no great secret. There are many amps including one's from Crown that don't perform per their published specs. |
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Post by back on Jul 29, 2009 13:55:23 GMT -7
it`s good to hear that ib subs don`t need a good amp to perform their best. what you mean subs with qtc lower than 0.50? i thought you mean ib subs. He understands damping factor is but one of many things to consider when choosing an amp. by saying real damping factor i mean on the speaker. when we say 400 we mean at 8ohm. it means at 4ohm will be 200 and at 2ohm 100 if we include the cable and contacts resistance we easily reach 50 or lower This is no great secret. There are many amps including one's from Crown that don't perform per their published specs. but when we drive 2 subs per channel parallel and the amp works at 2 ohm or lower isn`t it a problem? |
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ken
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Post by ken on Jul 29, 2009 14:57:59 GMT -7
Hi back, l run an ep2500 bridged 4 ohms to run my 4 X 18" ib and it doesn't bother it at all .........bass power / slam is more than enough and l haven't had a problem at all with the amp ..........that being said l've never tried another pro type amp against it, but imagine the cost vs a tad better performance/headroom would not be worth it for me as l can't run this to its absolute max without the risk of divorce/ household item damage/neighbors wanting to kill me ;D
Ken
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Post by retsel on Jan 6, 2010 15:12:31 GMT -7
There are significant differences in sound quality between amps. An amp which puts out X watts may not be the same as another amp putting out the same number of watts. Of course just becasue an amp is more expensive does not make it better either. Crown amps have an excellent reputation. I suspect that the EP amps are far from the best. However, using a higher rated model like the EP2500 should help it against other amps since the power supply is bigger.
Running amps into friendlier loads (i.e., 8 ohms), as Thomas has advocated, helps to level the playing field. the other thing you can do is purchase a cheaper amp and then tweak it. I purchased a Hafler and added small high quality power supply bypass capacitors (blackgate) to the main large power capacitors to great effect.
Retsel
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Post by inscrutable on Jan 8, 2010 1:54:16 GMT -7
Not totally a threadjack, but if you think so I'll move/restart.
I am going to be running 4-AE IB15's, and have two questions.
General - seems most here advocate using 'pro' amps like the Behringer, Crown, etc. With IB's do you really need that much more power compared to relatively high quality 'audio' amps putting out 150 or 200 watts stably (like an older Citation or Adcom)? I would like to not have a fan-cooled amp, but if necessary I will figure out how to silence it.
Specific - with the discontinuation of the EP2500, would I be OK with the EP2000, or should I step up to the EP4000? I MAY add four more drivers later, in which case my question is will the EP4000 still be enough?
TIA
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Post by ThomasW on Jan 8, 2010 9:26:43 GMT -7
Pro amp or consumer amp it doesn't matter which you buy as long as you have the required amount of power. And that's usually 1000 watts or more for a big IB.
I believe JohnJ of AE speakers recommends 200 watts per speaker.
It's better to have too much power and not use it vs stressing a smaller amp. This is why people opt for the EP2500/4000 over it's $50 cheaper little brother EP1500/2000
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Post by inscrutable on Jan 10, 2010 6:19:55 GMT -7
Well, I can get 400-500 W per side into 8 ohms from one of my passive/consumer choices, which would be fine for 2 drivers per side, but if I go to 8 drivers, that doesn't sound like it will be sufficient.
I know this is a very subjective question, but have others found (or would think) the fan obrusive in a rack (Salamander Synergy with the perforated steel front door) perhaps 15 feet from the seating position? Are there any sound pressure/level measurements of this in action? Not sure if I can find one locally to listen for myself.
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Post by ThomasW on Jan 10, 2010 9:11:50 GMT -7
Yes fan noise is indeed a very subjective thing.
I don't know of anyone who's done a survey of the output of various fan SPLs
Another option is to see if you can find a used Crown K2. They're one of the few passively cooled prosound amps. Unfortunately Crown discontinued them a few years ago, so used ones are the only option.
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Post by legend3215 on Feb 13, 2010 14:49:18 GMT -7
Funny you should mention the Crown K2. Next time you have a steak with that man, ask him if the K2 will indeed run a 2 ohm load, as that's what I plan to do. As for his opinion on damping factor, I noticed the Crown K2 is listed at 3000. If it does not matter, I am glad I have a big number. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat, but danged if I can find one. They really do kick some bass butt.
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Post by chrisbee on Feb 13, 2010 15:13:09 GMT -7
Perhaps you need to experiment with an EP1500/EP2500 driving each pair of your eight drivers for a total of four amps. Give them an easy load of 8 Ohms per channel (AEIB15s) and they should knock a new Crown right off its throne for much the same overall expenditure. EDIT: I've just seen a used one in the Danish free ads paper for $1400 equivalent. So four new EP2500s for one used Crown K2 still holds. |
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Post by ThomasW on Feb 13, 2010 22:28:09 GMT -7
Funny you should mention the Crown K2. Next time you have a steak with that man, ask him if the K2 will indeed run a 2 ohm load, Yes it will drive stereo 2 ohm loads but plan on it getting quite hot. It will drive a 4 ohm load bridged into mono |
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Post by legend3215 on Feb 14, 2010 7:31:20 GMT -7
Why would the Crown offer better sound quality?
I suspect, because of a much better power supply.
I already own a Crown K2. If a 2 ohm load will create excessive heat, I suppose I could series/ parallel for an 8 ohm load until I can source another K2 for sale. I paid $400 for the one I have now.
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