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Post by dougsmith on Mar 19, 2010 5:59:37 GMT -7
I have been comparing different drivers, specifically the Fi 18’s and AE 15’s. Using 2 Fi’s ($438) gives displacement of ~14.5 L and 4 AE’s ($500) gives displacement of ~14.3L. When I plug those into WinISD and adjust the signal so that both curves hit ~112 db at 20Hz, I get the following (using a 125Hz lowpass filter as well): This is driving the AE’s to their rated Xmax at 10 Hz, while the Fi’s are only at ~2/3 of theirs. Altough the Fi’s are capable of higher SPL, it looks like the AEs have a flatter response and are a bit more efficient at the low end. Taking the WinISD models at face value it looks like the power requirements to achieve that output would be about half as much for the AEs. Is this really true (assuming both are wired to achieve 8 ohms)? I think the models are using 4 ohms for the Fis and 8 ohms for the AEs even though I specified multiple drivers.
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Post by ThomasW on Mar 19, 2010 7:40:15 GMT -7
JohnJ recommends having 200 watts/driver.
The flatter response seen in the sim may or may not happen given the effects of room gain.
Since everyone pretty much uses a Behringer EP2500/4000 the efficiency of one driver vs another is sort of a moot point.
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Post by dougsmith on Mar 19, 2010 10:09:57 GMT -7
Yes, I would expect some significant room gain. I have a spare 500W class D amp I would use for this, which ought to be sufficient in either case.
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Post by cjohnsto on Oct 5, 2010 6:56:13 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
Dougsmith, could you make this graph where both drivers were at there xmax so I could see the relative total output of both? I tried to use WinISD to model the speakers but I could not find all the specs that the program asks for. Is there anywhere on this board that shows the complete specs for the IB3-18 and the AE-15?? Thanks!
Also this is my first post on here so please forgive me if I am not following protocol in some way and let me know what I should do..
Craig J
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 5, 2010 7:15:23 GMT -7
The T/S parameters are available on Mike's Driver Comparison link or from the manufacturer's websites.
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Post by cjohnsto on Oct 5, 2010 14:19:51 GMT -7
Thanks for your reply Thomas , but I used the main specs on FI IB3 page but I may be doing something wrong. I Entered : Qes, Qms, Qts, Fs, Vas, Mms, Sd, BL, SPL /1W. It calculated : Cms, Rms, Dd, no %, Znom, USPL and I still need to enter: Le, fLe, KLe, Xlim, Hc, Hg. But I can not find these specs... Thanks, Craig J
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 5, 2010 16:04:28 GMT -7
Enter only Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Re, Le, Sd, Xmax, Pe, leave the rest blank.
FWIW Fi does not publish Le so make up a number, say 2
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leog
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by leog on May 6, 2011 16:25:30 GMT -7
???Is it possible to have a comparison of the new AE SBP15 vs IB3 vs IB385 and also Tempest x2 (price liters, personal opinion, worth the wait)
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Post by ThomasW on May 6, 2011 16:48:16 GMT -7
How are we supposed to compare drivers that haven't been built?
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leog
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by leog on May 6, 2011 17:51:20 GMT -7
How about the ones that are available?
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Post by larrymcconville on Jun 11, 2011 13:41:25 GMT -7
I'm considering either 12 AE IB15s, or 8 Fi IB3s; essentially will boil down to which product is available first.
I'm coming from 6 sealed Mael-X in 6 cubes each.
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dave7
Full Member
Posts: 100
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Post by dave7 on Jun 17, 2011 5:52:27 GMT -7
What about the AE IB15 vs the Fi IB15?
The AE boasts a copper ring and accuracy while the Fi has big Xmax.
For pure deep accuracy, which is better suited? I think I've decided on 15" drivers simply for packaging in my set-up...they are just enough smaller physically to be less noticeable. Looking at eight drivers total.
Any suggestions of which to go with? I know neither are available yet.
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Post by larrymcconville on Jun 17, 2011 9:46:17 GMT -7
dave7,
fyi - the Fi IB product is available on their site; appears they updated yesterday.
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Post by ficaraudio on Jun 17, 2011 11:35:52 GMT -7
Back on the site with new motors and some cooling changes. We are quoting 30days right now as a lead time just to make sure we have some wiggle room should there be any machining issues.
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dave7
Full Member
Posts: 100
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Post by dave7 on Jun 17, 2011 12:01:58 GMT -7
It seems like Fi and AE are coming back to market about the same time.
So again - for the 15" size, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each company's driver?
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Post by blackhawk2383 on Jun 20, 2011 17:58:36 GMT -7
I just got done debating this exact question with myself and from modeling both my conclusion is as follows:
1) AE plays lower with less power and has a flatter response but could be limited on total output by lower xmax. Supposedly has lower distortion with included copper shorting ring. 2) Fi can play louder and possibly lower due to greater Xmax but will take more power to do so. Curve is not as flat.
Using the EP4000 you will likely end up in the same spot with both. I calculated for my space that with 8 of either I should be able to hit at least 120db at 20hz before any room gain. AE does it with 600W although hiting xmax. Fi needs 1000W but wont hit xmax until closer to 2400W which is the max RMS output of the EP4000.
Those with more knowledge or experience please correct me if this sounds wrong. I will hopefully be gaining experience by the end of the week. It would be nice if someone had the money and time to do a apples to apples comparison in the same setup. I wish that someone was me but unfortunately its not.
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Post by larrymcconville on Jun 20, 2011 22:07:01 GMT -7
At the end of the day Fi presents a better displacement:dollar ratio. I'm in a similar position; however, I'm not amp limited. Driving each product to xmax 8 Fi IB3 18s > 12 AE IB15s while saving ~$400 in the process. I'm probably going to pull the trigger this month: - 8 Fi IB3 18" front wall behind AT screen in 1200 cubes. - 4 Fi Q18 in 6 cubes each on rear wall (or where ever measures best) to smooth response/room modes. I'm coming from 6 sealed Mal-X that I wish I hadn't sold 2 months ago
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Post by ThomasW on Jun 21, 2011 5:21:34 GMT -7
I'm coming from 6 sealed Mal-X that I wish I hadn't sold 2 months ago Unlike the drivers from DIYcable or other suppliers that contract out the assembly of their speakers, drivers from either Fi or AE represent a long term investment since they can be reconed over and over if needed be ...
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Post by ThomasW on Jun 21, 2011 5:28:20 GMT -7
Those with more knowledge or experience please correct me if this sounds wrong. The original versions of the Fi IB drivers all had copper shorting rings. Don't know whether that will change with the new ones. Frequency response 'sims' are done in anechoic space and don't factor in the effect of room-gain. I wouldn't get too fixated making qualitative decisions about low end frequency response based on sims alone.
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Post by larrymcconville on Jun 21, 2011 20:51:43 GMT -7
AE needs to get some help in the door; I have two "I'm ready to purchase 12 IB15" inquiries to John via the sales address, and have yet to receive a response.
I'm still weighing the strengths/weaknesses of mutliple-sealed vs IB installs, and plan to make a purchase this month.
So, as it stands this evening: - for IB it shall be 8 Fi IB3 18s. - for sealed it shall be 8 Fi Q18s in dual-opposed 8 cubes.
Larry
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