Link to a list of appropriate sub drivers for IB?

[svejkovat]

Realizing that things change from month to month.... drivers are retired; new drivers are introduced.... still there are drivers that have been in production for a decade or more that newcomers to the forum might more easily be made aware of if any form of compilation were recorded/linked somewhere. 

Low QTS, high excursion, lots of swept volume.  There you go.... now head out to the web and search for yourself.

Of course there are dedicated IB woofers that one cannot go wrong with.. if anyone can link to any for less than 100usd ea I would be most grateful. I've been advised that IB on a budget is not realistic.  Big, low qts drivers and amps with bookoo horsepower are never cheap.  But I'm still curious about what is out there in the world wide web and would appreciate very much the wisdom of others who might have trekked that odyessy before me.

In other words...(always the case with a wordy bastard like me)  is there a list/compendium/catalog of currently available drivers that are suitable for IB use... from (as is available from most lists nowadays) lowest to highest cost? 

It kind of astonishes me that all I can find, web wide, in half a dozen audio forums, are questions regarding one or another driver followed by support or approbrium concerning that drivers obvious suitability/unsuitablility for IB use.   Why not just "cut to the chase" and list a dozen or more 15 and 18 inch drivers appropriate to infinite baffle alignments?

Or am I talking out of turn?   Maybe such a list is here on ibsubwoofers and I missed the link?

Thanks for any response

svejkovat

[ThomasW]

Sept 11, 2013 16:32:43 GMT -7 svejkovat said:

is there a list/compendium/catalog of currently available drivers that are suitable for IB use... from (as is available from most lists nowadays) lowest to highest cost? 
Thanks for any response

svejkovat

Years ago people used to keep lists of drivers available in the US. We posted those lists but they were compiled and maintained independent of the forum. Given the changing nature of that market it's too much hassle to try and maintain a comprehensive list. We know what drivers are typically available in the US and Canada. Given the rather complicated marketing paths used internationally it's up to each builder to find out what's available in his specific area.

[svejkovat]

 We know what drivers are typically available in the US and Canada. Given the rather complicated marketing paths used internationally it's up to each builder to find out what's available in his specific area.

Internationally?   Canada who?  

 

[FOH]

svejkovat,

Where are you located and do you have driver size preferences?

[svejkovat]

I'm in Michigan on the lake shore across from Milwaukee. 
As high quality bass-per-buck is such a priority,  I'm considering any size woofer from 12 on up.  
Too many twelves might be additive costly, as well as much more labor to construct a separate plenum.
Two 18s are said to be the minimum for IB installs?  If a pair of suitable inexpensive 18s could be had it would be easiest all the way around for cost and installation.  But the selection of suitable 18 inch drivers is probably pretty thin.
Four 15s might be optimal?  Much larger selection of possible budget drivers available on the web.  Additively only a bit more expensive than the 18s (or maybe not?)   Still fairly easy to install (separate plenum but it's a small, stout, and unobtrusive one). 

So I'm open on the size and open to suggestions but am leaning toward a pair of single coil 4 ohm 18s.

[FOH]

Sept 15, 2013 8:25:11 GMT -7 svejkovat said:

I'm in Michigan on the lake shore across from Milwaukee. 
As high quality bass-per-buck is such a priority,  I'm considering any size woofer from 12 on up.  
Too many twelves might be additive costly, as well as much more labor to construct a separate plenum.
Two 18s are said to be the minimum for IB installs?  If a pair of suitable inexpensive 18s could be had it would be easiest all the way around for cost and installation.  But the selection of suitable 18 inch drivers is probably pretty thin.
Four 15s might be optimal?  Much larger selection of possible budget drivers available on the web.  Additively only a bit more expensive than the 18s (or maybe not?)   Still fairly easy to install (separate plenum but it's a small, stout, and unobtrusive one). 

So I'm open on the size and open to suggestions but am leaning toward a pair of single coil 4 ohm 18s.

Ok, then Fi's IB3-18 is for you. I'd go with four of them, unless your room is very small.

[geb]

Sept 16, 2013 5:13:04 GMT -7 FOH said:

Sept 15, 2013 8:25:11 GMT -7 svejkovat said:

I'm in Michigan on the lake shore across from Milwaukee. 
As high quality bass-per-buck is such a priority,  I'm considering any size woofer from 12 on up.  
Too many twelves might be additive costly, as well as much more labor to construct a separate plenum.
Two 18s are said to be the minimum for IB installs?  If a pair of suitable inexpensive 18s could be had it would be easiest all the way around for cost and installation.  But the selection of suitable 18 inch drivers is probably pretty thin.
Four 15s might be optimal?  Much larger selection of possible budget drivers available on the web.  Additively only a bit more expensive than the 18s (or maybe not?)   Still fairly easy to install (separate plenum but it's a small, stout, and unobtrusive one). 

So I'm open on the size and open to suggestions but am leaning toward a pair of single coil 4 ohm 18s.

Ok, then Fi's IB3-18 is for you. I'd go with four of them, unless your room is very small.

Sorry to ressurect an aging thread here, but what leaps immediately to mind here is whether IB must be a rich man's game?   Four Fi IB3-18 already exceed 1000usd and after shipping, wiring , the extra horsepower required to feed them, etc, I'm looking at 1500 usd for an IB installation... at a minimum.

I'd hate to think that live performance creep has so taken over this forum that its members are so hot on the chase of commercial theater or live concert level recreation that they've unconsciously missed the satisfaction of comfortable, intimate, listening levels in their home music space.

Surely there must be suitable IB 15 inch pairs that would satisfy my urge for very clean, very authentic,  bass on the order of acoustic string bass or kettle drum in an "unplugged' acoustic reproduction using a less than 1500 dollar assemblage of parts.  Even lower level dance, dub reggae, etc, should not overtax a well built budget OB as long as one is not reaching for >100db immersion or neighborhood shaking special effects from Cloverfield.  

So what is my point?   I feel like dozens of suitable drivers, 15 specifically, are overlooked here due to  their shortcomings where the above extremes are concerned. 

Where do I get advice concerning affordable 15 inch driver pairs for OB home music use without being dismissed each time I ask because "I hope you know those won't survive war-of-the-worlds at 112db".  

I often think I'm talking at cross purposes when asking about about or discussing subwoofers.  I generally adjust my subwoofer so that it very subtly fills out what is lost in whatever mains I have driven at the moment.  I never, ever, incorporate a sub to the point where it is noticelble on its own. But from what i've read about OB arrangements, I'm intruiged with the possibility of further "hiding" it from perception against the main speakers.      

[ThomasW]

Nov 4, 2013 20:21:28 GMT -7 geb said:

I'd hate to think that live performance creep has so taken over this forum that its members are so hot on the chase of commercial theater or live concert level recreation that they've unconsciously missed the satisfaction of comfortable, intimate, listening levels in their home music space.

Nothing we do here is "unconscious" since we're usually awake during the entire process.....

Perhaps you meant subconscious? If so you're incorrect. This forum was founded to help people design and build subs that offer the finest low frequency sound quality for all types of music. To that end low cost has never been a driving criteria.

Where do I get advice concerning affordable 15 inch driver pairs for OB home music use without being dismissed each time I ask because "I hope you know those won't survive war-of-the-worlds at 112db".

Interesting question, and the answer of course depends on what one defines as "affordable". We/I consider a $1500 investment quite a bargain when the performance provided is superior to assembled subs costing $5k or more.

Years ago when the forum first began we were able to get good 15" drivers For $100ea. Unfortunately it's a new century and the price of goods and materials have gone up quite a bit.

The Stereo Integrity 15"s are $209ea excluding shipping. Their 18" are $239, an 18" is almost equal to a pair of 15"s. So an "affordable" sub these days is probably a pair of 18"s with an amp and EQ

I often think I'm talking at cross purposes when asking about about or discussing subwoofers. I generally adjust my subwoofer so that it very subtly fills out what is lost in whatever mains I have driven at the moment. I never, ever, incorporate a sub to the point where it is noticelble on its own. But from what i've read about OB arrangements, I'm intruiged with the possibility of further "hiding" it from perception against the main speakers.

No one here is talking about or trying to create overblown bass. To much bass makes the lower midrange frequencies sound "chesty"

[FOH]

'This forum was founded to help people design and build subs that offer the finest low frequency sound quality for all types of music. To that end low cost has never been a driving criteria."

Great point, cost isn't a factor. Although, we often illustrate that a relatively modest investment can yield world class results.

"We/I consider a $1500 investment quite a bargain when the performance provided is superior to assembled subs costing $5k or more."

+1

"So an "affordable" sub these days is probably a pair of 18"s with an amp and EQ"

Again, total agreement. Also, it's important to point out that once the pair of drivers, amp, and EQ is purchased, it's quite the force multiplier to scale up to four drivers with the same amp,..ie., for maybe $500 additional investment, you gain significantly more performance (lower distortion, etc). Hence the quantity of 4 drivers so often being used.  

"No one here is talking about or trying to create overblown bass."  

Exactly, just reproducing the recorded material.  

"To much bass makes the lower midrange frequencies sound chesty"

Few things I dislike more tonally than that range overblown. This is a common mistake in live sound also, ... due to the proximity effect of directional vocal mics. Once the performer becomes more consistent, then the FOH engineer can also present more natural tonal reinforcement as well. Again, as Thomas pointed out, the same goes for home playback.   

[svejkovat]

From one pedant to another..

Nov 5, 2013 8:12:45 GMT -7 ThomasW said:

Nov 4, 2013 20:21:28 GMT -7 geb said:

I'd hate to think that live performance creep has so taken over this forum that its members are so hot on the chase of commercial theater or live concert level recreation that they've unconsciously missed the satisfaction of comfortable, intimate, listening levels in their home music space.

Nothing we do here is "unconscious" since we're usually awake during the entire process.....

Perhaps you meant subconscious? If so you're incorrect. This forum was founded to help people design and build subs that offer the finest low frequency sound quality for all types of music. To that end low cost has never been a driving criteria.

un·con·scious (n-knshs)
adj.
1. Lacking awareness and the capacity for sensory perception; not conscious.
2. Temporarily lacking consciousness.
3. Occurring in the absence of conscious awareness or thought: unconscious resentment; unconscious fears.
4. Without conscious control; involuntary or unintended: an unconscious mannerism.

The word, as noun and adjective, is correctly used both ways.

Perhaps you meant subconscious?

"Unconscious" seems more correct in this instance.

Some people use the terms the unconscious and the subconscious interchangeably, but this is not accurate from Freud’s definition. Unconscious, first and foremost, does not mean, as it is used in medical terminology “knocked out,” and it doesn’t mean anesthetized either. Yet these ideas have a relationship to Freud’s conception of the unconscious.

In simple terms, the unconscious is the store of collected information that has been repressed and is not easily brought to the conscious mind. These memories not recognized by the conscious mind can be memories of trauma, or even simply memories, thought patterns, desires, and sense impressions that remain far below the accessible surface. Because they are in essence, inaccessible without psychoanalysis, they may drive and control the conscious mind on unseen levels. Much of Freud’s id and superego work in the background of the unconscious, creating illness, mental problems, neuroses, and a host of other issues.

The unconscious and the subconscious are vastly different, though non-psychiatric professionals often incorrectly use subconscious. In contrast to the unconscious, the subconscious mind lies just below consciousness, and it is easily accessible if attention is paid to it.

That from
www.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-difference-between-the-unconscious-and-the-subconscious.htm
...and/or any one of hundreds of sources on the web - or your old college psych prof.