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Post by firstcav on Oct 28, 2015 15:18:34 GMT -7
I've been lurking around here for almost a week (after reading on AVS that is the Mecca for IB talk) trying to absorb as much info as possible to decide whether or not an IB setup was for me. Well, after not finding one single post/thread with someone stating what a terrible decision it was to go IB, i've decided to begin the process. Ok, so I've just sold my 3 SVS 20-39 pci subs (for a steal btw) after 8 years of wonderful ownership. We've recently moved into a new home and I've decided that its time to take my first step into the wonderful world of IB subs. With that being said, after about 3 days of reading I still feel like i've only half understood most of what I've read here in random threads and in the FAQ, on AVS, and hometheatershack . What I've taken away as benefits of going IB so far is.. 1. Quality/clean bass 2. Takes up less floorspace 3. More bass for less money compared to manufactured subs 4. ITS AWESOME Im sure there are more technical and mature benefits to IB, but i'm already hooked so it doesnt matter . With that being said, I've run into a few snags that I cant seem to figure out on my own. So here goes, I'm looking at the SI HT18 (great price) and it seems to be considerably cheaper than the FI sub (IB 318?) but its also 2 ohm since the 4 ohms are sold out. Any disadvantage in choosing 2 ohm over 4 ohm? Would I need a bigger/better amp if I chose 2 ohm over 4? Also, my bonus room (standard over the garage type w/sloped ceiling & kneewalls) is 20x14x8, the attic space behind the knee wall is 480cu ft (240 cu ft because its triangular correct?). How many 18's would I need to at least meet or exceed the output I enjoyed with my 3 SVS 20-39 pci's? Sorry for all of the ignorant questions, but this all feels like Chinese arithmetic to me for some reason. Anyway, any help you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 29, 2015 9:00:27 GMT -7
The reason we advocate for IB subs is first and foremost sound quality, not low cost.
The SI HT-18 has 50% less Xmax than the Fi IB3. This means it will take 4 SI HT-18"s to equal the output of a pair of Fi IB3 18". And IIRC 2 Fi IB3's cost less than 4 SI HT-18"S.
On occasion I have recommended SI HT-18's, but the situation was one where the guy had very little money and was originally looking at $99 drivers with 16mm of Xmax.
Do you have a copy of the floorplan for your theater? If so seeing it would make all this much easier
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Post by firstcav on Oct 29, 2015 10:37:20 GMT -7
Very good to know about the advocation of IB being sq and not low cost. It was not my intent to imply that this was the "cheap way out" by any means, but it did strike me as an additional benefit to going this route nonetheless. To be honest, after creating this post and reading through the responses, I've come to the conclusion that one of two things are possibly at play here. A. Stereo Integrity is NOT the driver for me based on some of the critical data points presented by multiple sources B. Perhaps IB isn't the route that I should take to achieve my goals if purchasing 8 HT18's or 4 Fi IB3's is a necessity (which is what I took from the link above) I've never created/sketched a floorplan of my room, I'll look into finding a program to do so. Any recommendations? To be truthful, I dont think I ever mentally created a budget until last night when asked in the thread what my budget was. I haphazardly said $1000, in thinking that should maximize the possibility of getting everything I need. I know that every room/situation is different and has its own circumstances that will mitigate what is required to achieve individual goals. But generally speaking, do you think that 1k would be a decent starting point?
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 29, 2015 15:00:24 GMT -7
Given the size of the room I think you'd be fine with a pair of IB3-18"s. Those with an amp and EQ would come in at $1K.
Although unlikely should you feel the need for more output, just grab a couple more 18"s when the budget permits.
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Post by firstcav on Oct 30, 2015 3:19:43 GMT -7
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 31, 2015 7:14:58 GMT -7
Appears you went to post a message and used preview, then forgot to click on create post
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Post by firstcav on Nov 2, 2015 7:07:31 GMT -7
Definitely not the best sketch, but with my limited ability its the best I could muster up while traveling. *The blue circles represent my former SVS 20-39 pci subwoofers *X's represent the front LCR *Red marks on the side and rear wall are side and rear surrounds *Small white rectangle on the right wall is my a/c unit Long space on the right and left side is the knee wall attic space. My initial thought/preference with no regard to best frequency response would be to put the IB manifold somewhere between former sub #1 and the edge of the couch closest to it. Obviously i'm open to anywhere else that works best for sound quality, but my only concern due to space constraints and added noise is installing next to the a/c unit
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Post by ThomasW on Nov 2, 2015 19:45:40 GMT -7
Sorry there is no sketch to be seen
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 20, 2016 17:46:06 GMT -7
Interior dimensions of layout are 20L x 18W x 7H with sloped knee walls @ 4ft So after a few months of complete craziness in my household, I'm finally on track to start this project....again. So this is a layout of my bonus room (over garage), the left, top, and right side walls are all exterior walls. The left wall is walk-in attic space (4W x20L w/slanted roof line) hence the wood flooring, also, those are windows on the top wall. My proposed and only available locations for the manifold are labeled 1,2,3, & 4 on the left wall, which sadly is also the rear wall. I do understand that placing a manifold on the rear wall is frowned upon and probably will not allow me the best sound/fr but its all I have to work with. If its a really bad idea to continue please let me know and I'll begin the process of figuring out what plan B should be, hopefully it allows me to build a box with the 2 FI IB318's I've already purchased. Thanks
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 21, 2016 10:36:03 GMT -7
Not the best choice of locations. Some people have used a rear only sub and were satisfied with it's operation. Takes a low XO point and bigger front speakers to work best.
I'm a bit confused, since this room is over the garage why there aren't better placement options going through the floor?
Can you create a drawing that shows adjacent rooms and spaces?
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 21, 2016 11:55:40 GMT -7
Not sure if they fit into your description of "bigger front speakers" or not but my planned LCR are the Elusive 893's from DIY Soundgroup.
My garage doubles as my shop/daughters indoor hitting facility. And since the ceiling is already low (7'3") I would imagine that hanging a manifold in there would create a hazard. Not to mention, I honestly have no real desire to cut through our newly refinished hardwoods.
I could create a drawing as you asked but the description is pretty simple. As you look at the current layout picture, the left, top, and right walls are all exterior walls. The top wall also has floor to ceiling built-in bookshelves on both sides of & below the 2 windows. The other side of the bottom wall that has "hallway" written on it is the kitchen wall with cabinets/stove/soffit/vent hood etc on it.
Sadly, outside of cutting through the floor my choices are truly limited.
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 21, 2016 12:49:21 GMT -7
I also took measurements of the 4 proposed locations using my Dayton sub 1200 in the main listening position and a UMM-6 mic placed 6 inches from the wall at the desired manifold locations (labeled 1,2,3,4 on the room layout sketch). I'm EXTREMELY new to REW, as in I just downloaded and took my first ever measurements on Tuesday...new. So please keep your expectations to a minimum when looking over the results lol. Nearfield measurement Position 1 Position 2
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 21, 2016 12:50:58 GMT -7
Position 3 Position 4 Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 21, 2016 14:02:34 GMT -7
#1 or 2 are 'best' but minimally so, this means any of them will work.
If you go with a rearwall IB (this should operate with a lower than normal crossover point to avoid smearing the stereo image). It's possible you'll want or need a box sub or something like a MBM in the front to maintain a balance in the bass output.
How does it sound with the existing sub placed behind the sofa playing music?
Note: I'll be away from internet access for the next 24hr or so. You can post more questions but I won't see them until Fri PM.
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underthebottom
New Member
System is operational but incomplete - it is temporarily an open baffle.
Posts: 42
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Post by underthebottom on Apr 21, 2016 14:50:15 GMT -7
Not knowing all your particulars, this is probably a dumb idea, but ... Had you considered rearranging the furniture and A/V system in the room by rotating it 180º? Putting the front channels where the IB can be installed.
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 21, 2016 15:56:01 GMT -7
It's possible you'll want or need a box sub or something like a MBM in the front to maintain a balance in the bass output. My plan is to go dual opposed manifold first, then sometime in the immediate future (3-6 months) build at least two 18" driver sealed boxes (Martycube or the like) for the front screen wall to help smooth out any problems with the fr. Good question. Problem is, there's no furniture in the room, the layout I presented is exactly what we're going to purchase but as of right now the room is furniture free. Do you think that when the sofa is placed in the room it will negatively impact the FR in a major way? Understood. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 21, 2016 17:05:30 GMT -7
Not knowing all your particulars, this is probably a dumb idea, but ... Had you considered rearranging the furniture and A/V system in the room by rotating it 180º? Putting the front channels where the IB can be installed. Not dumb at all, but as you can see, I'm unable to mainly because I built my AV rack into the wall. Not to mention the fact that the knee wall is too short (4ft) to house a 70" tv, 120" screen, 2 box subs, and LCR speakers. Oh, and as I told Thomas, there isnt any furniture to rearrange yet
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 21, 2016 17:07:38 GMT -7
Not knowing all your particulars, this is probably a dumb idea, but ... Had you considered rearranging the furniture and A/V system in the room by rotating it 180º? Putting the front channels where the IB can be installed. Not dumb at all, but as you can see, I'm unable to mainly because I built my AV rack into the wall. Not to mention the fact that the knee wall is too short (4ft) to house a 70" tv, 120" screen, 2 box subs, and LCR speakers. Oh, and as I told Thomas, there isnt any furniture to rearrange yet
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Post by 1stcav on Apr 22, 2016 19:33:20 GMT -7
Thomas I'd love to know your thoughts on manifold height. Is there a benefit to placing it higher vs lower?
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 25, 2016 6:37:19 GMT -7
I wouldn't want to sit in the modular unit with an IB firing directly at my head.
So keep it lower say 6"-12" up from the floor
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