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Post by arande2 on Nov 25, 2007 5:54:26 GMT -7
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Post by ThomasW on Nov 25, 2007 9:06:20 GMT -7
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Post by arande2 on Nov 25, 2007 10:21:01 GMT -7
Oh, yeah. That's right. What was I thinking. Guess I forgot.  "What 18" drivers would beat this one in linearity, distortion, and displacement?" "The Audiopulse flagship is the most linear lowest distortion highest displacement low frequency driver in the world." Ha..that's funny. If only it did better in WinISD for what I'm designing. It might be fun to try sealed for a two channel system... |
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Post by arande2 on Jan 3, 2008 16:51:33 GMT -7
How would two of the Aurasound drivers compare to that driver?
I'm wondering
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Post by diycable on Jan 3, 2008 17:43:43 GMT -7
Look at the cost on those solutions. You can certainly do better in terms of linearity, distortion or just about any parameter by using multiple drivers that are more reasonably priced. Our Maelstrom-X is going to have a VERY linear motor, both in terms of BL & Le. It won't beat the LMS in terms of pure stroke but @ $350 each you can buy two and clean up on the that beast for half the price. www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=46027.0Hell... I can even sell you an amp to power both and still have it cost less than just a single LMS 18"!!! Look at their recommended power.... 5000W! Arg!!! I should load up their parameters and take a look at that baby.  |
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Post by arande2 on Jan 3, 2008 18:08:10 GMT -7
I really don't want 8 18" drivers though haha  My current solution uses four of the NS18s with 1600w/driver on tap  I really like the look of these drivers and think they're cool ;D |
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Post by mrogowski on Jan 10, 2008 18:35:26 GMT -7
The Aura's are the pinnacle of everything SQ related - period. All I can say is if you can afford to get them, do it. You will never look at anything else. Ever. That, plus every speaker geek who knows of Aura will do this  Take this "technical advice" from someone who has heard the 18.  Best, Mark |
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Post by arande2 on Jan 11, 2008 1:42:34 GMT -7
It sounds like you were quite floored by the 18!
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Post by diycable on Jan 11, 2008 8:50:36 GMT -7
I guess I'll just bite my tongue.  |
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Post by mrogowski on Jan 11, 2008 15:30:18 GMT -7
The gentleman who had them told me they are somewhat finicky when it comes to enclosure. Don't ask me what he ended up with tho - I can't tell you. Once I heard the price he paid for the drivers, my ears snapped shut and my eyes glazed over. ;D
Once loaded in the proper enclosure and exercised, they are extremely difficult to match. They are not volume monsters by any stretch, but are dynamic and musical.
That's what I got from them. Mention the Aura's elsewhere and those who drool have probably heard them in the right configuration too.
Best,
Mark
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Post by arande2 on Jan 12, 2008 12:59:37 GMT -7
Once loaded in the proper enclosure and exercised, they are extremely difficult to match. They are not volume monsters by any stretch, but are dynamic and musical. Well I don't know about the enclosure, but their engineering department seemed to ok my design when I e-mailed them, so it should be ok. If not, I can always go IB or something (this is an IB site anyway..). More can be added (can't imagine four not being enough) if they're not loud enough (which would also lower distortion). I recall the MJ-18 and IXL-18 being used in some installs. Sorry Kevin, but cost isn't the concern here. |
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Post by diycable on Jan 12, 2008 17:24:40 GMT -7
I don't necessarily make recommendations just on price unless its part of the design goal. Just because something cost less doesn't mean it performs worse. Price and performance don't always go hand-in-hand.
There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. My main point is that buying a driver that cost x4 as much to get an extra 3-4 mm of linear excursion isn't the smartest way of building a system. Your better off getting TWO drivers that have a slightly lower amount of linear BL and split the work between the two drivers rather than spending big $$$ on one. One driver, LMS-5400 or any other, has suspension and Le non-linearities. Those non-linear attributes are the WORST at the limits of the driver. Two drivers working well within their limits are a much lower distortion solution with less power compression, lower Cms compression & Le based distortion problems.
Also, look at what it takes to use all that linear stroke. It takes massive amounts of power. Guess what happens to the VC under that much thermal stress. The Re skyrockets, and you get big-time compression. Also... a 15A breaker is only good for about 2000W-2500W no matter what amp or driver your using.
So... my recommendations are based upon using good engineering to achieve the best results. They are not based upon what is cheapest although that may be a side result.
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Post by arande2 on Jan 12, 2008 19:03:27 GMT -7
I see what you mean.  These drivers have minimal amounts of all this stuff though (power compression, Le variation, etc) due to their design. If eight cheaper drivers would be better than four expensive ones, then I'd rather just use eight expensive ones and get even better performance. I'm actually having two 30A circuits installed by my father anyway (for two amps that have 30A plugs). It all really depends on the application, then, doesn't it? Mark has heard it and liked it, so I tend to think it'll be fine!  Well...I've forgotten a lot of stuff I wanted to say... so bye... The internet doesn't do these conversations justice because there's a lot of missing info. |
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Post by chrisbee on Jan 13, 2008 1:57:05 GMT -7
There is a slightly odd attitude to single powerful subwoofers. Subwoofers aren't like Ferraris. Get two good subs and you can beat one great sub. Get four and the single sub looks like a weakling. Use eight subs and that high end sub looks like an overpriced wimp. Distortion falls with each added sub. Dynamic range increases dramatically while infrasonic output climbs to concrete-flexing levels. Cone excursion stays at tiny movements for amazing levels of output. All for quite modest input power levels compared with that first, single, great sub that everybody talks about. Whoops! I seem to have reinvented the IB. |
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Post by arande2 on Jan 13, 2008 3:34:58 GMT -7
hahaha Then if you use many great subs in place of good ones, then it's even crazier. Why am I talking about EBS on an IB site?? Ah, whatever... my point is that I'm using multiple high-end drivers rather than multiple cheaper models to better the results further. I would think it works. The NS18 isn't really a "powerful" subwoofer anyway. I've seen all types of things (like you), like a bunch 18s in an IB, a couple of 12s in IB, a 5.25" ported, large sealed towers with 4 drivers per side, and many others like sonos and LLTs. I'd like to try an EBS/LLT in each corner, then add another in each corner if that doesn't cut it (I really think it will though). I think I might try IB as well at another time or go hear one. Hmm.. does anyone live near me (MO)? Yeah... |
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Post by diycable on Jan 13, 2008 19:20:38 GMT -7
There is one attribute with larger high excursion subs that gets worse as the driver gets "better" or more expensive. The Le increases and non-linear behavior of a large 4" VC would have much high flux modulation and higher Le non-linearities. Power handling would be better but most high output small box subwoofers with lots of stroke need LOTS of power to use their excursion. Once again, more moderately sized drivers with smaller power requirements to use their more reasonable amount of stroke would give you better performance, even if you have the Hoover Dam next door.
In such an overkill install like your doing it won't matter one bit but it illustrates that bigger & more expensive isn't always better.
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Post by arande2 on Jan 15, 2008 3:05:29 GMT -7
Yes I suppose it does not matter in an install like this. ;D These drivers have a .1mH inductance (frequency measured not sure), and are particularly designed against nonlinearities like you described. They're also in large boxes. Haha go figure |
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Post by maxserg on Nov 26, 2008 18:10:41 GMT -7
Why not use the Aurasound pro version? The Nrt 18 (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1710)wich is a moore efficient 18" but is moore expensive too but at 96db/whatt/m. you would need less of them (4-18") would be killer. I'm not an IB expert but someone can chime in about it's specs and tell if it is compatible with this project |
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