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Post by eeyore on Jul 5, 2006 14:49:54 GMT -7
Yes, I am using 4 drivers. With four 8 ohm drivers you can run two in parallel for 4 ohms a pair then in series to get 8 ohms or you could go two in series for 16 a pair then run those in parallel for 8... there is no way to get a 4 ohm load out of four 8 ohm drivers wired together unless you split them into two channels which only gives each driver 200 watts. I do have my drivers paired up for two 4 ohm loads. I am considering another EP1500 and putting two drivers per amp.
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Post by soho54 on Jul 5, 2006 14:53:10 GMT -7
Darren- Can you get the supplied speaker T/S numbers to work in the program? The ones that come pre-installed.
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Post by Darren on Jul 5, 2006 15:57:21 GMT -7
Darren- Can you get the supplied speaker T/S numbers to work in the program? The ones that come pre-installed. None came for the SoundSplinter and it wasn't in any of the optional databases either. I tried at work and now at home with the same errors... doesn't seem to work.
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Post by soho54 on Jul 5, 2006 16:47:22 GMT -7
What I meant to ask was if you could get any other speakers to model correctly, from the standard database (like the Audira Audio Brahma 15") I thought that maybe your copy of Unibox had an error in it. These are the numbers I use for the SS RL-p15" D4: Fs 27.49 Hz Re 6.10 Ohm Qms 3.73 Qes 0.51 Sd 806.0 cm2 Vas 148.8 l Xmax peak 24.60 mm Le 6.27 mH Le2 0.00 mH Re2 0.00 Ohm Nominal Power 600.0 W
"FR affected by Le, Le2, Re2" Is the only other option I select.
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Post by Darren on Jul 5, 2006 17:13:21 GMT -7
Oh, yeah... the other drivers work fine, just the SS I entered won't work, actually anything I enter manually doesn't work. I'm scratchin' my head.
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Post by Darren on Jul 6, 2006 11:15:49 GMT -7
Hey Jeff and eeyore,
Have you tried running those 2ohm stereo? The specs say both the RMX and the EP amp should perform well in that configuration and you'll get 350 watts per channel. I'm going to try that with my EP1500 when the drivers arrive before I decide to buy a bigger amp.
I'm assuming you each have the dvc 4ohm versions though...
eeyore, I might be selling my EP1500 if I decide it isn't enough power running it 2 ohm stereo... let me know if you are interested. I'll probably be ordering my RL-P 15's in the next day or so and will test it out just as soon as they arrive.
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 6, 2006 14:48:22 GMT -7
I spoke with a pro-gear shop owner who wouldn't stock the EP amps any more because they couldn't be driven hard into low impedances despite Behringer's propoganda claiming that they could. He was fed up with having amps returned for repair from unhappy owners.
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 6, 2006 14:55:54 GMT -7
I spoke with a pro-gear shop owner who wouldn't stock the EP amps any more because they couldn't be driven hard into low impedances despite Behringer's propoganda claiming that they could. He was fed up with having amps returned for repair from unhappy owners. On multiple forums there are dozens of people using these amps for their subs and no one has posted any complaints other than the loud fan. I know one person that used them for a commercial install, and had problems with them shutting down from the heat. So I think for our needs they're fine even driving 4 ohm loads. But if one needs an amp for a 'real world' pro-sound application then look else where
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Post by Darren on Jul 6, 2006 15:57:57 GMT -7
Did you mean 2ohms or 4?
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 6, 2006 17:39:07 GMT -7
4 ohms
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Post by eeyore on Jul 6, 2006 18:42:08 GMT -7
I would be interested Darren. Keep me posted. With work, home remodeling, and school I don't have much time to play with my toys anyway so a wait won't be a pain. I would be afraid to run the EP1500 with a 2 ohm load. Not saying that it can't handle it. Was watching "A Streetcar Named Desire" which has a mono soundtrack and it clipped the BFD. That caused all kinds of weird noises. The led's were completely lit on the BFD and would not go away until I shut it off. Scary I was watching below reference and the movie has no lfe. Probably just a weird thing in the soundtrack. I'm just dying for John at AE to get back to bidness with the IB15's. "Day After Tomorrow" sounded good but had a bit of distortion. More drivers would probably solve that problem.
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Post by Darren on Jul 6, 2006 19:04:09 GMT -7
I figure I'll give 2ohm a try but I am also a little afraid. I'll keep my eye on it when I give it a whirl. I'm pretty sure I'll be selling the EP1500 though in favor of the 2500 so I'll keep ya posted.
I'm remodeling as well so between work and remodeling I'm in a similar situation as you but I don't have school thank goodness.
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 6, 2006 19:12:57 GMT -7
The led's were completely lit on the BFD and would not go away until I shut it off. I've had that happen a few times, it's no big deal just cycle it off/no and things are as good as new..
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Post by Darren on Jul 10, 2006 13:31:45 GMT -7
I'd really like to know what I'm doing wrong with unibox. I can't get any driver I enter to work. It just hoses the form I downloaded it at work and at home with the same behavior.
Maybe someone could model the SS RL-P15 d4 for me and tell me what wattage per driver seems optimal.
I guess I'm looking for confirmation if I buy the EP2500 that I'll have enough power. It will have to run 8ohm bridged mono which is 325 watts per driver.
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 10, 2006 17:00:04 GMT -7
Don't know what issues you're having with Excel (don't forget to enable Macros...), but.....
I took a quick look, if you model 10,000L box, a single RL-p15 hits Xmax at 10Hz with 225 watts.
So the 325 watts /driver sounds fine
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Post by Darren on Jul 10, 2006 17:52:19 GMT -7
Thanks Thomas. I did enable macros and I'm using office 2003. It just kept screwing with the calculations causing division by zero errors and not a num errors.
Thanks for doing that for me.
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Post by Darren on Jul 11, 2006 12:58:30 GMT -7
Hey eeyore,
I ordered my new subwoofers today and should have them before the weekend. I'll probably be selling the EP1500 shortly after. If you are still interested give me a holler at the email address below:
darren [at] garagehobbies [dot] com
Darren
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Post by jagman on Jul 17, 2006 23:00:32 GMT -7
chrisbee or Thomas,
I'm having a similar circumstance as you posted towards the top of this thread. I have a dual Avalanche 18" IB driven by a Samson S700 amp in a 3000 cubic foot room. It's run in stereo at 4 Ohms so each driver is getting 350 watts. Even when I turn it way up in LOTR, the drivers still don't move all that much. Its frustrating because I really want to see them puppies move. I know it adds some distortion, but then again I want to feel that bass, not just hear it.
I know the IB is hitting pretty hard in low the low end. I've tested my frequency response with the RS digial SPL meter. Using Sonnies new correction factors for the digital meter, my response declines at a rate of just under 1dB per Hz from 37 to 10hz (93=>71dB). Above 37Hz it slowly undulates between the low 90's and low 80's (except it briefly drops down into the upper 70s in the upper 70 Hz area).
In order to reach these levels, I have the amp turned about 80% to the max and the integrated amp has 10dB boost dialed in (it's max). The thing is, the amp isn't close to clipping. I rechecked polarity (while the music was playing) and the subs are in phase. I also checked to see if they are in phase with the mains, and they basically are.
This leads me to two conclusions...
1) I need to finish my room treatments and remeasure response 2) I need to get a parametric EQ and dial in a house curve
Beyond that, I'm wondering if I need to get a line level booster. Since the level on the front of the amp is 80% turned up and the line level boost on the integrated is maxed 100% yet the amp isn't close to clipping and the speakers aren't moving excessively, it seems like I have headroom that the current system isn't capable of pushing the amp to.
With the line level booster, I'd get more signal for the Sampson to amplify, thus increasing output across the board.... most importantly the frequencies below 30 Hz. I'd then use the EQ to dial back the frequencies hitting the mid 80's and up and add a little more push the ones between 10 and 30 Hz. Since the amp is arleady 80% turned up, I don't think I would be able to add much to the low end without a line level booster...does this make sense?
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 17, 2006 23:22:35 GMT -7
chrisbee or Thomas, I'm having a similar circumstance as you posted towards the top of this thread. I have a dual Avalanche 18" IB driven by a Samson S700 amp in a 3000 cubic foot room. It's run in stereo at 4 Ohms so each driver is getting 350 watts. Even when I turn it way up in LOTR, the drivers still don't move all that much. Its frustrating because I really want to see them puppies move. Then buy a bigger amp..... That's the standard roll-off rate of a sealed box sub in a losey room Turn it up Both conclusions are correct. Again turn the amp all the way up and see what happens I'd start by getting the EQ, then get the line level booster if needed.
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 18, 2006 3:12:53 GMT -7
I am afraid I can still only offer another ramble around the subject of IB output: I have been struggling for serious impact from the IB despite Thomas' best nursing care. It is EQ'd with a BFD and has a house curve. 2 x 4 Ohms in series for 8 Ohms per channel of the EP2500. Our humble SVS 16-46 PCI has served us well over the last couple of years. We regularly see 105-108dB uncorrected on the RS meter (C-Slow) in our 30 feet long, leaky listening space. We often turn to grin at each other during bassy films. The floor vibrates like mad and so does everythng else in the house. Sometimes things outside rattle too! It is always exciting on films. It sits about 9 feet from the nearest corner because it sounds crisper and cleaner there without obvious loss of output. Then came the IB. It instantly sounded as deep as a mine but just didn't kick ass like the SVS does so effortlessly on films. At this point I was going to write another negative ramble on the IB V SVS. Then I decided to try the prologue to LOTR1 once again with the IB alone and with the SVS alone. Just to get some proper comparisons people could actually relate to. With the narration at around 80dB they were both fairly closely matched on bassy peaks on the RS meter. (C-slow) I was seeing 100-102dB peaks on the meter on the ring finger drop and at other moments from both subs working alone. Quite impressive but nothing special. There was no real sense of fear from either sub. Just loud rumbles and bangs. Then I suddenly decided to turn up the input gain on the CX2310 to maximum. The High and Low channels were already set to minimum and maximum = 12 dB boost in favour of the IB channels compared with the speakers. Both controls on the EP2500 also at maximum,. I ran the prologue again with the narration reset to 80dB. (too loud for comfort really) The SVS now hit 105-106dB and the IB somewhere over 112dB on the ring drop! (at the listening position about 8-9 feet from each sub) This time the IB drivers were really moving throughout the chapter. I was getting a structural rattle from the baffle area but no obvious distress from the drivers. I would estimate the drivers were moving about half an inch in total travel whe I went over to check. It sounded very, very loud, very deep and very powerful. It also sounded very real! It was actually so loud I was frightened I would break the drivers when something started rattling. Sounds within the LF effects were clearly heard as deep loud drums and hard impacts. The floor hardly vibrated at all which felt rather strange. The SVS seemed to shake the entire house throughout the prologue. The floor repeatedly went completely soft under my feet and chair. The air around me seemed to vibrate. It sounded really fantastic throughout but in an AV sort of way. Rather soft edged and artificial without any hard edges. My wife still thought SVS sounded much better than the IB. She was going in and out of doors watering plants and came in to tell me about the roof rainwater gutters rattling when the SVS played! She could clearly tell the difference even from outside (with all the windows open) "The SVS sounds exciting but the IB is just gutless" according to her. This is not an opinion I can easily dismiss despite the evidence of the RS meter. My lack of serious IB output finally seems to have been solved by increasing the signal to the EP2500 IB amp. But, the IB still sounds very different to the SVS. I think it fair to say that after extended listening to the IB we still want the best of of both subs. Neither quite manages it working alone. Adding a second SVS clone with the purchase of the NSD driver upgrade may help lower distortion and increase peak dynamics from a co-located pair. A pair will better match the output of the IB. It is just too exhausting raising the dialogue to that level just to get serious impact on the LF effects. We need greater dynamic bass peaks not continuously high levels of everything! At present I have no way of increasing the output from the IB without turning up the whole sound track. I am at maximum settings on everything available except the speakers. On music the SVS offers no competition to the IB. The clarity and depth of the IB are astounding. Even at the lowest listening levels it is instantly noticeable how much deeper it sounds than the SVS. I really hope this long ramble helps others. For music the IB is a complete no-brainer. Worth every penny. For films you may want more acoustic power to impress or even frighten yourself. If only I could have got hold of four more AE IB15s it might have been all I needed to impress my wife.
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