Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on May 17, 2006 13:09:26 GMT -7
Hey Guys, Here are the prams for the new Silver Iris IB B.A.D. 15" version. McJ just sent these over for us to take a peek at. I should have the drivers in house next week. Same deal as on the 18" drivers.... Beta testers needed... I have several samples coming so I think I can run several test at once. We were intending for McJ to test a pair in his personal system but unfortunately he has seriously hurt his back and cannot get up into his attic for a very long time... These prams are not carved in stone but represent what we think is the best shot at our goal..... Re 6.56 Ohms fs 22.2 Hz Le 6.31 mH QM 9.08 QE 0.53 QT 0.50 Xmax 14.29 mm Pmax 225 Watts Coil Diameter 2.50 Inches Magnet Weight 90 ounces Efficiency 0.59 % SPL 89.7 dB 1W-1m Anyone interested in getting in on the Beta tester list, please e-mail me @; hawthorne@hawthorneaudio.comThanks Darrel  |
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Post by Darren on Jun 1, 2006 12:26:52 GMT -7
I'm on the beta testers loop for these drivers and am anxiously awaiting their arrival so I can finally get my manifold installed I'm curious about ThomasW's thoughts on the specs shown here. The XMAX seems a bit on the shy side. Does anyone have any feedback yet that might be testing these now?? |
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Post by ThomasW on Jun 1, 2006 12:59:42 GMT -7
It's basically the same as John J's AE-IB15's. There are a ton of those in use.
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Post by Darren on Jun 1, 2006 13:15:42 GMT -7
Yeah, that's a good point. I'm pretty curious to see how the accordian surround works out. I'll be testing two at first, hoping to get another two shortly after.
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Post by toecheese on Jun 1, 2006 22:39:32 GMT -7
Taking a quick look at the specs, the power handling seems kind of low- 225 watts versus 600 on my Adire 15D8s. Adire does put a disclaimer about their rating, though.
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Post by Darren on Jun 2, 2006 6:34:52 GMT -7
I imagine the power rating of 225 watts is true rating in an IB configuration where on most drivers you need to cut their rating significantly for an IB configuration.
This is speculation on my part.
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Post by ThomasW on Jun 2, 2006 7:23:30 GMT -7
Taking a quick look at the specs, the power handling seems kind of low- 225 watts versus 600 on my Adire 15D8s. Adire does put a disclaimer about their rating, though. Might reread the FAQ section about power handling in IB subs vs small box designs. For IB's we're only concerned about the amount of power needed to move the driver to it's suspension limits. That's quite a bit lower than the thermal limits of the VC heating, which is what all mfgr's list as Pmax. |
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Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on Jun 2, 2006 13:31:47 GMT -7
Hey Guys, I would like to thank all the beta testers that have signed up to test drive this batch of candidates. I will finish up all my testing this weekend and then off they go. I have several guys wanting to run four and some only needing two. I will distribute them as best I can and then re appropriate the 2 only test units over to the guys waiting to run four units.... Should be a lot of fun seeing all the different responses. Several people have writhen in and asked about my reporting policy and general guidelines for doing these tests. This was my response to one gentleman's letter: Q.can I speak freely on the forums about this or is this feedback reserved just for you? Please feel free to express exactly what you experience. That's the only truly fair way for these Beta tests to be done... I know some guys like to "filter" the feedback and I understand their need to do this I just don't personally do things this way.... We are basically telling guys to pretend that they actually bought these drivers and run them as if they had . We are seeking feedback on sound quality, sound quantity and a general first impression of build quality and some sort of assessment of their relative market value ( bang for the buck) I hope this helps you understand my position on this. Thanks Darrel |
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Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on Jun 5, 2006 16:52:50 GMT -7
Hey Guys, I managed to get all the 15" drivers boxed and shipped today. Diana will be sending out tracking numbers so you can keep track of their shipping status. They are insured so report any damage... When your finished with your test drive , please get in touch with Diana and she will take care of shipping them on to the next tester or back here.... Make sure you keep track of your shipping fees so that she can reimburse you.. Thanks Darrel |
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Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on Jun 7, 2006 19:35:57 GMT -7
Hey Guys,
Q. As a Beta tester what should I be listening for?A. Just pretend you bought them, Run them hard but don't abuse them . Listen for how well they play all bass sounds not just the real deep stuff. These were designed to have high fidelity as well as the necessary construction to play low. Listen for the differences in each bass notes.... Do they sound like real instruments ? Can you tell one bass note from another. Many subs make all bass sounds sound very similar...they produce a dull thud. These IB drivers should play drum kits, stand up acoustic bass, piano, organ, contra bassoon, tuba.... all should have a very unique and different sound. They should have scale.. a big drum hit should have a sense of size and weight. Listen for sustain and decay. Listen into the mix and listen for the natural ambience of the recording venue..., was it a big space or intimate .... Basically have fun.... That's what this is all about after all..... Darrel |
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Post by tazman on Jun 11, 2006 13:35:53 GMT -7
Hello, I am one of the beta testers for these drivers. I installed them yesterday and spent a couple of hours today doing some A-B comparison with my 2 SS RL-p15 setup. The beta drivers look well made although I have never seen a surround similar to these and they are not as beefy as the SS which I am not sure if that makes a difference.
I will start with HT application. The 2 beta drivers just can't go as low and loud as the 2 SS. This made it difficult to do much testing in this area. They do sound good until the really low and loud stuff kicks in. I don't know if the beta drivers will cost half as much as the SS to see if it would be worth while to do some testing of one SS against the two beta drivers. This could come in handy to know to see how they would compare $$ wise. This is something Darrel could comment on and maybe I will do some testing along these lines.
For two channel music things got a lot more interesting and I had to do more switching back and forth to try and give a fair comparison. The beta drivers still lack a little on the low end for my rap music at high volumes. They do have great detail though. I had some problem telling much of a difference between the two difference set of drivers so I set the crossover from my receiver from 80hz up to 200hz so my mains which have a 12" woofer in them would be taken out of the equation. This proved to me how much more detail the beta drivers have over the SS. At this point I have to apologize for my lack of knowledge and try to explain what I want to say. I was listening to some Jazz and I was surprised that with the beta drives I could hear the different notes of the bass and the actual plucking of the strings where as with the SS it was just more like a note being played. I hope that makes sense as that is the best way I could find to say it.
I hope I did ok writing this as this is the first time I have done anything like this. If there is anything I can do to help further I am open to suggestions.
Tom
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Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on Jun 11, 2006 14:02:00 GMT -7
Hey Tom, We think you did a wonderful job of describing your test procedures and the listen results. Well done.... I do not know the final price on these yet but we are looking at somewhere around the 150.00 each price range in quantities? Please don't hold me to this, I just wanted to give you guys some idea so that you can asses their relative value. Thanks for your time Tom, I know you put a lot of work into this and it's very much appreciated. Hope you managed to have some fun along the way Best regards Darrel |
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Post by toecheese on Jun 19, 2006 22:39:52 GMT -7
[ Might reread the FAQ section about power handling in IB subs vs small box designs. For IB's we're only concerned about the amount of power needed to move the driver to it's suspension limits. That's quite a bit lower than the thermal limits of the VC heating, which is what all mfgr's list as Pmax. No, I don't think I need to read that (again). By your own statement, he gives a listing of pmax- which is less than half of what my Adires list. Furthermore, since I can reach the suspension limit of my IB driver with a 9V battery, I don't think 225 watts is correct either. |
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Post by ThomasW on Jun 20, 2006 8:54:12 GMT -7
And this is important because?
The 9 volts DC going direct to the voice coil is just a bit different than the AC power coming from an amplifier.
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Post by toecheese on Jun 28, 2006 18:07:55 GMT -7
And this is important because? I think I'd rather hear back from the original poster- but to answer your question- it is important because it is so different from an established brand. I'm curious as to why. |
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Post by ThomasW on Jun 28, 2006 18:12:15 GMT -7
And this is important because? I think I'd rather hear back from the original poster- but to answer your question- it is important because it is so different from an established brand. I'm curious as to why. I don't recall if Darrel has posted this but the drivers are made by Eminence. They are the worlds largest maker of loudspeakers. |
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Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on Jun 28, 2006 18:54:09 GMT -7
Hey Guys, These drivers are being developed for us by the engineering dept. at Eminence. The engineer in charge of this project is Mr. Jerry McNutt. The listed Pmax is 225 watts. This rating is based in part on wanting to keep the power level for true IB use somewhere at a point where the driver is operating in its linear range for clean sound. So far the beta tests on these samples are confirming that these drivers are doing fine at this power level. I cannot recommend exceeding this value. Hope this helps Darrel |
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Post by Darren on Jun 29, 2006 8:58:58 GMT -7
My Beta Test ResultsOk, I'll try and keep this concise and coherent... I first tested just two of the 15" drivers then 4. I had no prior experience with IB subwoofers, only my traditional box subs that I have built in the past and my current AV15 box sub. I have had no prior EQ experience either so this was an adventure. I'm powering them with a Behringer EP1500 amp. 2 driver configuration 8ohm stereo: 260 watts per channel. My room is 3,200 cubic feet open to the rest of the house. I'll keep my comments focused on the driver itself and not my impressions of IB design in general. ---------------- First impression: No EQ, just slapped them in, hooked em up and configured the sub level. I was impressed with the music I dropped in... Judas Priest and Linkin Park. Sounded great, but that's rock music...easy on the sub. I then watched my Eagles Hell Freezes over DVD and noticed a lack of emphasis in the lower frequencies. Time to test and EQ. I knew I would need to do this but you know how it is...ya gotta listen as soon as you can. Conclusion: I'm impressed so far but needs tweaking. ------------------------- Tweaking and testing: I went for a flat response to see if I could do it. I knew it would sound boring but wanted to start there. Achieved a fairly flat response easily enough and what do you know! Boring I dialed in a house curve, still not what I want... added some gain and a little boost here and there and whallah! Now we are getting somewhere. I came up with two curves, one for music and one for HT. I tested and tweaked using my Bass Mechanik CD for bass music and LOTR Fellowship of the Ring scene 1 as my DVD reference. I concentrated on the soldiers marching to battle, the ring drop, and the long, sweeping tone of the explosion following right afer the ring drop. First thing to note: I've not had bass that goes this deep with authority before. Chalking this up to IB in general. Love it. I designed my IB for 4 drivers knowing I'd need 4 minimum to achieve the output levels I desire. I was very surprised at the level of output just two gave me. I was getting much more output below 20Hz but I was getting a boxy, or tinny sound in the higher frequencies above 30Hz. I eventually worked that out with some EQ changes... I think I was really hot in some frequencies causing this. With my Bass Mechanik CD there is a tone sweep that goes from 10Hz up and I use this to make the house shake with my other box sub. I slapped it in and went to town. Yup, the house was shaking but it started much deeper. Nice. The Eagles DVD sounded great, the bass was solid and sounded quite musical. I'm really liking the IB thing. With my test DVD scene I had to dial back the gain a bit to keep the amp signal from clipping. I found I had to dial it back enough that it reduced my output enough to make me want two more drivers. Don't get me wrong, the output was very good...I just require insane bass output. I'd say two were adequate for my room in both music and HT. I didn't expect that at all. I was expecting to be disappointed with two drivers. As has been said here multiple times, 4 drivers is a minimum but I suggest that 2 might work for those who want accurate bass in a 3,000 cubic foot room or smaller, but not for people like me Conclusion: Nice surprise, two of these drivers do quite well. I measured them flat to 10Hz, they reach deep with good authority, no strange noises. I like em. ------------------------- 2 more drivers arrive: Right on, this is what I was waiting for. I installed the second pair for a total of 4 drivers. I wired them 4ohm stereo for 400 watts per channel. I noticed good bass reinforcement at the lower frequencies but it was harder to notice higher output all around... I'm thinking more power is needed at this point because my amp is clipping too easily. I re-wired them to 8ohm bridged mono to get 800 watts and that seemed to get rid of the clipping problem. I'm not sure if 800 watts mono is the same as 400 wpc stereo or not but it did make a difference. The same tests with 4 drivers revealed MUCH improved bass below 20Hz. My test sweep scared the bejesus out of me, my walls were literally moving...shaking... It literally felt like a 5.0 earthquake. Not bad at all. My sweeps showed improved gain and the response stayed fairly consistent. I found these drivers to be great for music, they really do well in this application. The only flaw I found was that some old school rap bass was fairly weak, I'm leaning toward a bad recording though or a frequency that just isn't flattering in my room because test tones were all good and testing with other bass heavy music was really impressive with no issues. For home theater I was also impressed. 4 of these drivers would be plenty for most HT enthusiasts. At normal listening levels they performed admirably but I had to push them near their design limits to get the output I desire personally. I wasn't pushing them to their mechanical limits but I believe I was pushing them beyond their designed sweet spot, not sure if that is a good way to put it. Basically, there were certain frequencies that went from holding a note cleanly to a bit distorted... I'm still trying to figure out if it could have been my enclosure or maybe the drivers needed to be mounted better but haven't seen a problem yet. This is really my only gripe and I cannot say it was the driver for sure. I'll definately follow up if I do find out what it was. I'm actively troubleshooting this and you can read up on my progress on my IB build thread that is linked to at the end of this incredibly long report  At any rate, with my current amp and 4 of these drivers I was getting good output and response. I feel these drivers will be a great value at the price point Darrel is suggesting. For my personal needs I believe I need more output than can be provided by 4. I believe that should be no surprise though. Darrel said these drivers were supposed to be a good value and accuracy/quality was # 1 priority, not high excursion beasts. I think he did a good job hitting his goal. Conclusion: Looks like we have another affordable IB driver option. I give it thumbs up. For the low down on my IB build, check out my build thread which has all my struggles and triumphs with my IB from setup to today using the beta drivers: www.ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=projects&action=display&thread=1145135611I hope I was informative and not just a rambling idiot. Let me kow if you'd like me to elaborate or touch on other areas.
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Darrel
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Darrel on Jun 29, 2006 9:31:55 GMT -7
Hey Darren, First off thank you very much! As per my original offer I cannot offer you any compensation other than our thanks and gratitude..... but I must tell you what a fun ride this has been for us over here... Man, First they were good then there was a problem.... then they are good again.... To watch this unfold in real time without any filtering or control was wild.... This is how a beta test should be done.... You put your money on the table and you gets what you gets..... Hang on to them and enjoy them for a while longer.... I will get back with you later on what to do with the samples...... Thank you very much for all your hard work and dedication to the goal. Darrel and Diana |
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Post by Darren on Jun 29, 2006 9:36:53 GMT -7
Hey, the use of the drivers while setting up my IB is more compensation than I should have got ;D
I was happy to offer my opinions on the driver. My build thread is a true, honest account of my experience with IB and the driver itself and sometimes my ignorance as well. It and this thread are unfiltered, untainted, honest thoughts from me and this, my first experience with any driver in an IB configuration.
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