Sealed is apparently better than IB

[jman]

Sealed meaning small enclosure;

Some thoughts on the IB vs sealed:

I am sure that there is a sonic sig issue when you bolt that many drivers to the structural wood frame of your house.

Remember that, yes...I do use the BOSSIS which gives me the ability to alter system Q to that of any IB. I am equally sure that the low Q of IB systems has a LOT to do with comparos to much higher Q box systems.

Headroom is very audible. Reproduction of transients means everything to SQ. The fact that it takes much more power-on-hand for the smaller boxed system only requires that you provide much more power-on-hand. The nonsense about VCs heating is just that. Soundtrack program is largely hours of boredom followed by seconds of sheer terror. There is the occasional exception, but IB owners aren't basing the differences in SQ on those soundtracks, IMO.

If your system has the ability to play back single digits, you WILL see room gain and boundary gain. At these frequencies it will occur in ANY room, and quite significantly. This is where the properly designed sealed box leaves the IB (and every other alignment) in the dust. The air cushion allows for maximum system playback at these frequencies without driver failure. The IB/ported/PR and bandpass subs MUST be bandwidth limited for system safety. Horns would be too large to consider at all.

I'm with Bob Carver on the THD issue. If you have significant THD at 6Hz, most of that HD is at H2. Considering that H2 and H3 are inaudible frequencies, what is the resulting effect to the human senses? I don't think many people know the answer to that question. The subject is only being approached in recent years, IMO. Obviously, some soundtrack engineers think it's significant...

And I really think that the idea that these frequencies are noise that has been mistakenly left on a soundtrack of a big budget Hollywood movie is nonsense. If it's there, it's supposed to be there. Otherwise, it would be expunged from the soundtrack, no question.

8-15" drivers is not about loud. Actually, a single 2X15" is plenty loud for most purposes. I run a REBASE system, or .1+1. A discrete redirected bass system of 4X15" and a discrete LFE system of 4X15".

It's strictly about headroom for the first 2 octaves. OK, and the occasional 'Listen to this' demo session

Bosso

Bossobass from Avsforum in the near-useless "craig's ultimate shootout thread" (locked twice now). Bosso has 4 tumults in small sealed enclosures using a custom(?) LT with thousands of watts of power to overcome the enclosure size/eq'ing done.

[ThomasW]

Nothing new there....

That fact that someone can create a small sealed box with the same "Q" as an IB doesn't mean it will sound like an IB.......

Before building my first IB I had 4-15"s in individual boxes all critically damped = Qtc of 0.50. They weren't even in the running when I compared them to the SQ of my IB.

[ryans]

Here's my favorite part:
"If your system has the ability to play back single digits, ... This is where the properly designed sealed box leaves the IB (and every other alignment) in the dust. The air cushion allows for maximum system playback at these frequencies without driver failure."

The automotive equivalent would be something like
"I like to put a block of wood under the gas pedal to keep myself from over-reving the engine"

I'm curious what is the purpose of sending the redirected bass to one woofer array and the LFE to another array? Seems like a single .1 channel with the same total woofers is more effective. What if the soundtrack puts 90% of the bass in the LFE? In his system half the woofers have to do 90% of the work. With a single .1 signal, all the woofers share the workload equally.

[jman]

ryans said:

The automotive equivalent would be something like
"I like to put a block of wood under the gas pedal to keep myself from over-reving the engine"

Classic. Having dipoles has given me a great appreciation for what removing box coloration does for the bass. I just need to finish my room so those pesky backwaves stop mingling with the front waves.

[titch]

Thats kind of funny that you just put that up. I just spent the last few hours reading the from start to finish. Some people really get at each other dont they?

[chrisbee]

There are personalities and there is audio.

The former consider themselves more important than the latter.

They are wrong.

The more I read of that thread the more I realised that man and his fixed ideas have yet to leave the jungle.

Some haven't even considered packing for the journey.

If they just lifted their eyes to the canopy overhead they would see the stars in their courses offering boundless possibilities.

Instead they place their faith in their witch doctor's spells to cure all ills.

Their eyes never rise above the well trodden ground of the village mentality. They think that there lies certainty and safety.

They are wrong.

Labels are meaningless. They merely allow the blinkered to more easily find their well-worn brail.

Nothing is ever perfect but by the slow accumulation of detritus we constantly walk on new ground.

Some choose to pound it into a safe road. Others plant acorns in the fertile verges and seek new, untrodden pathways.

Place your faith in yourself. Others seek power over your fears and will imprison your hopes and ideas in a dark place.

We merely seek control over the movement of air and to fashion its vibrations and velocities to our own needs.

All else is just smoke and mirrors.

[PeterW]

Clap clap clap

[jman]

I would point bosso here to read this but then he'd have to register. Just don't see him bothering

[titch]

Then that would bring some of the fighting over here, which we dont need.

[chrisbee]

titch said:

Then that would bring some of the fighting over here, which we dont need.

I'm sure Thomas is up to the task of moderating such childish behaviour.

[twisterz]

Chrisbee
Very poetic

Some poeple think all beers taste the same, you must open yourself to the posibility that the only absolute is change & the opposite of gravity is...

[twisterz]

...Comedy

[chrisbee]

twisterz said:

Chrisbee
Very poetic

Some poeple think all beers taste the same, you must open yourself to the possibility that the only absolute is change & the opposite of gravity is...comedy

No post leaves my keyboard without a virtual grin to help it on its way. ;D

I also like (British) real ale in all its variety (in strict moderation the better to savour its delights) and thrive on change.

[3beanlimit]

So bosso has a different opinion. For the most part, he's pretty decient about keeping on the subject and not brow beating those who don't agree with him.

I'd also point out that the guy really is pretty sharp. In fact a lot of those in the thread are pretty sharp.

The difference is in the delivery and the ego. craigsub cough cough...

[jmprader]

I like to read contrary opinions and don't mind a little ego from the posters. These often help me evaluate and adjust my priors.

Craig and Bosso are ok in my book. I have communicated with them directly a few times and think I have a little understanding of their underpinnings, however different these may be from my own.

I've been vaccuumed into the subwars at various times over the past 1-2 years. I have noted some sobering of views in recent times. In the interest of education and advancement, I hope these changes will lead to reconciliation and the end of the "cold war" on various forums. Those controversies are part of what propelled me to lurk here much more often, and to stick my toes in (gimme a few months, I'll be waist high!).

I thoroughly enjoysites like this that rise above the "best brand" badges many want to pin on products, where the focus is on providing information and assistance to users who want to learn from others and enjoy their pursuit.

My .02