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Post by chrisbee on Oct 18, 2006 1:35:20 GMT -7
While I could attach this question to the end of my old IB installation thread this seemed like something that would crop up in other people's systems. So that's my excuse for putting my question here. I keep looking at the spaghetti at the back of my rack and cannot decide how to quickly and easily switch the IB back and forth between stereo music and LFE. The IB is presently running on the Front Mains signal and is crossed over at 80Hz by the CX2310. That means I'm missing my LFE when I'm watching films. I want my 7Hz F*Irene! I listen to music far more than I watch films. So I don't want the Yamaha E800 3.1 processor involved anywhere in the stereo music system. Is it possible to connect LFE from the receiver to the IB by a simple cable swap somewhere in the system? I thought of an RCA (phono) to jack cable from the processor's Sub-out to the BFD input but I'm really not sure that this would work in parallel with the stereo system. The connection would be inactive when the processor was switched off and only come into play when the processor was switched on. But is life really that simple? I keep imagining hum loops and smoke spiralling gently towards the ceiling! Here's an image of the present wiring system from a quick dabble in Paint. Do we have any suggestions please?
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Post by norpus on Oct 18, 2006 6:18:39 GMT -7
Chrisbee, Get an MX882 to mix the LFE and 2ch, put it between pre and CX2310. Thats what I do - (and 3 other mates here in Melbourne) - seamless use of the IB for both 2ch and HT for me.
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Post by Darren on Oct 18, 2006 6:45:46 GMT -7
Or you can do what I do and just use my receiver and don't care about the processing I used to be a more critical listener but my musical taste it mostly hard rock... the processing doesn't really matter for me I get where you are coming from though.
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 18, 2006 7:45:15 GMT -7
Is there a center channel operating for HT?
If not I see no need for the Yamaha.
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Post by twisterz on Oct 18, 2006 9:49:28 GMT -7
I told my receiver no sub and mains large, that sends the LFE to the R&L. Then the CX2310 crosses out the mono sub.
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 18, 2006 14:47:16 GMT -7
Is there a center channel operating for HT? If not I see no need for the Yamaha. I need the Yamaha for my rear channels. I'm not getting LFE from the Front Mains. My attempts to use the DVDP as a triamped surround processor failed just as the manufacturers suggested it would. Bass is not redirected to the sub from the Mains when set to small. Though bass is redirected from small rears. My priority is music SQ. Films are just a weekend pastime though I still want the best SQ possible. The way my system presently works leaves the front Mains running through my Naim pre-power amps. Only the rear channels are provided by the Yamaha E800. The Yamaha processor sounds awful on music and not much better on film. The processing ruins the sound quality. I'll look into the MX882. Another UFO to add to the top of the stack! Thanks.
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Post by norpus on Oct 18, 2006 15:02:43 GMT -7
Is there a center channel operating for HT? If not I see no need for the Yamaha. I need the Yamaha for my rear channels. I'm not getting LFE from the Front Mains. My attempts to use the DVDP as a triamped surround processor failed just as the manufacturers suggested it would. Bass is not redirected to the sub from the Mains when set to small. Though bass is redirected from small rears. My priority is music SQ. Films are just a weekend pastime though I still want the best SQ possible. The way my system presently works leaves the front Mains running through my Naim pre-power amps. Only the rear channels are provided by the Yamaha E800. The Yamaha processor sounds awful on music and not much better on film. The processing ruins the sound quality. I'll look into the MX882. Another UFO to add to the top of the stack! Thanks. Chrisbee, the MX882 will allow you to get the SQ you need in 2ch and with the IB- it has been transparent for me here. The 2ch rca/xlr signal from the 2ch preamp goes to the MX882, as does the lfe rca from the receiver. I use Denon 3805 still - and yes it was also poor on 2ch. I also use the denon power amps only for the 2 rear surrounds It also allows you to run your receiver bass management however you want - and sends the lfe to the sub. No cable swapping. Here is a piccy of my behringer stack so far www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=29168&view=findpost&p=496165Not an expensive toy but a useful one. Let us know how you go
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 18, 2006 15:37:13 GMT -7
Thanks norpus.
If you can't hear an SQ loss on your tasty kit I should be okay with the MX882 in mine. (where will it all end?) ;D
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 18, 2006 15:55:05 GMT -7
What happens when you set the mains to 'large', and sub to 'No'.
That should send all the bass to the mains to be filtered out by the CX2310
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 19, 2006 0:32:46 GMT -7
What happens when you set the mains to 'large', and sub to 'No'. That should send all the bass to the mains to be filtered out by the CX2310 This is precisely what I am doing now in my DVDP menu using the system layout I've posted. I am just not getting the LFE favorites that everybody raves about. I do get tremendous bass but all of the "special moments" in films are absent. Irene is a non-event. Ring drop in LOTR is a lead balloon. Darla is tapping on a shoe box. WOTW was a damp squib! I've played them all at increasing levels without being at all impressed. I have to turn the IB way up to get anything much on any of these scenes. During "Irene" all the VLF must be in the LFE channel because the cones just don't move. On scenes, that nobody ever talks about, the house is getting wrecked!
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Post by norpus on Oct 19, 2006 1:56:19 GMT -7
Oh dear, that is terrible Chrisbee!! An IB that is malnourished of LF content - Here is the cheap remedy from across the border www.behringer.com/MX882/index.cfm?lang=ENG126EU incl tax Please feed your IB or we will have to report you to the authorities
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 19, 2006 2:07:31 GMT -7
Oh dear, that is terrible Chrisbee!! An IB that is malnourished of LF content - Here is the cheap remedy from across the border www.behringer.com/MX882/index.cfm?lang=ENG126EU incl tax Please feed your IB or we will have to report you to the authorities Steady on, mate! ;D I've emailed my nearest (Danish) pro-gear shop for a price. They don't list this model on their website. I see it can be bought for £65 online in the UK but over here they seem to run over £100 equiv.
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Post by norpus on Oct 19, 2006 6:28:56 GMT -7
;D
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 19, 2006 7:42:40 GMT -7
Correct that's why you're supposed to set the mains to large, and the sub setting to 'No'.
Those settings should send all the bass content to the mains where it's filtered out by the CX2310
Don't use any steering setting in the DVD player. Just send the spdif/toslink digital connection to the E800. Put all the steering (management) settings in it.
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Post by twisterz on Oct 19, 2006 10:26:50 GMT -7
This works great for me. I am taking Nemo home and have the house to myself in the morning, Check the news for Siesmic activity near Sacramento, CA.
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 20, 2006 2:22:54 GMT -7
Correct that's why you're supposed to set the mains to large, and the sub setting to 'No'. Those settings should send all the bass content to the mains where it's filtered out by the CX2310 Don't use any steering setting in the DVD player. Just send the spdif/toslink digital connection to the E800. Put all the steering (management) settings in it. Don't you just hate it when Thomas is right all the time! ;D I ran a cheap phono cable from DVDP digital out to the E800. Set everything to large in the DVDP. Set Rears to Small. Fronts to Large. No Centre (or no dialogue!) The dynamics are suddenly free! I ran LOTR prologue. With the woman's voice at 80dB I hit over 116dB on the frequency sweep after the ring finger was cut off. The all was moving more than the speakers at modd momenmts during the battle scene. On Blackhawk Down "Irene" the helicopters were seriously loud for the first time without drowning out the dialogue. There is always a downside. I don't think the bass sound quality is the same as it was in stereo. The SQ is also a little scratchy on vocals and background noises. Hopefully I've found a matching Centre speaker to my mains which will hopefully help things along. I haven't been able to try DTS yet.
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Post by norpus on Oct 20, 2006 2:37:24 GMT -7
The dynamics are suddenly free! I ran LOTR prologue. With the woman's voice at 80dB I hit over 116dB on the frequency sweep after the ring finger was cut off. The all was moving more than the speakers at modd momenmts during the battle scene. On Blackhawk Down "Irene" the helicopters were seriously loud for the first time without drowning out the dialogue. There is always a downside. I don't think the bass sound quality is the same as it was in stereo. The SQ is also a little scratchy on vocals and background noises. Hopefully I've found a matching Centre speaker to my mains which will hopefully help things along. I haven't been able to try DTS yet. Yes the downside can be SQ where the mains have to do too much and get muddled. That is one reason why us guys in Melbourne use the MX882 also - so we can send the LFE separately to the mixer and use the mains as small. It sounds better (my thanks to Spearmint for this tip). This way the sub gets all the surrounds lfe also and doesn't tax/muddle the mains with it. You may find it is even better with a phantom centre doing it this way If you haven't been using dts chrisbee, you are gunna love your IB even more after. Glad to hear it has been taken off the vege diet and will be given big steaks from the barbie now ;D
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 20, 2006 4:03:41 GMT -7
Hi norpus
I can't set the mains to small because I need to split off the bass with the crossover. If I connect the IB straight off the processor it means cable swapping to get back to stereo. (I'm still looking for an MX882 locally)
Is there any point in buying a better digital connection cable between the DVDP and the E800? My box of spare cables only contains the cheapest phono to phono shoelaces they give away with the kit. Are these good enough for this task?
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Post by ThomasW on Oct 20, 2006 7:43:37 GMT -7
There is always a downside. I don't think the bass sound quality is the same as it was in stereo. The SQ is also a little scratchy on vocals and background noises. Sorry but I don't buy this .... people simply tend to listen more critically after changes are made. The only way to validate this is return the system to it's original configuration and have several people (wives are good for this since their hearing is usually better) A/B the changes It's probably worthwhile to get a shielded 'coaxial' true 75 ohm digital cable. But there's minimal benefit from getting a really expensive one.
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Post by twisterz on Oct 20, 2006 9:02:00 GMT -7
You might also try a composite video cable, they are also 75ohm. Your phono is probably 50ohm.
Also try adjusting cross-over points on CX2310, if you bring it up a little you might clear up the mains.
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