Connecting LFE into a stereo music system?

[chrisbee]

The £20 digital cable seemed to have done the trick. No obvius HF emphasis on the two hired films we watched tonight. Bass was excellent but far too loud so had to be turned down.

My new analogue soft-look RS meter arrived today. I have already noticed 2-3dB difference between the new and the old. I feel some REW sweeps coming on.

I couldn't buy an MX882 off the shelf so bought an RX1602 instead. The number speaks for itself. 16 channels in and two out. I'll place it between the preamp and the XC2310 as norpus suggests. I might try pushing the Centre channel through it as well until I get a Centre speaker.

Oddly the manual doesn't seem to mention the purpose of the rear sockets on the mixer so I'd better wear rubber gloves and ear-defenders in case anything goes bang!

I had to buy some jack cables too. With all this knitting to play with it could be a very long weekend.

BTW: My wife noticed the improved bass right away!

[Spearmint]

Hello good people.

The reason I used the MX882 was so the LFE channel was left intact. BTW I don’t use this method on my system as I have a pre with HT By-pass. The reason I don’t like running my mains as large on my Rotel system for HT is that the redirected bass is also directed to the mains and not the LFE. This also happens if you run say 100Hz crossover to your surrounds and say 60HZ for your mains with the rest going to the LFE.

The use of say the MX882 allows you to mix your 2ch signal from both sources to the CX2310. Then on Norpus’s system using another 2ch of the MX882 I mixed the LFE with the sub out of the CX2310, this then ensures the LFE has a direct path to the sub.

With my system I have the 2ch crossed over at ~60Hz, and the HT processor at 80Hz, so theoretically the two crossover points don’t conflict with each other. The other connection I make with my box subs is the LFE goes to the right channel, and the 2ch bass goes to the left channel. This ensures the left channel auto on circuit is activated in both listening modes.

As Thomas says you must have something not setup correct for the sound to be not right.

[chrisbee]

Can someone just confirm please that I should be using stereo jacks to connect the mixer to the CX2310?

This doesn't seem at all clear in the manual.

I bought mono jack to XLR cables so may have to return them to get some stereo cables tomorrow.

Though the LFE connection will of course be mono. I have an RCA (phono) to mono jack cable for that purpose.

Thanks

[chrisbee]

This is the proposed layout.

[chrisbee]

I have the RX1602. It's supposed to be the same at the 882 but 16 instead of 8 channels.

[ThomasW]

chrisbee said:

Can someone just confirm please that I should be using stereo jacks to connect the mixer to the CX2310?

This doesn't seem at all clear in the manual.

I bought mono jack to XLR cables so may have to return them to get some stereo cables tomorrow.

Though the LFE connection will of course be mono. I have an RCA (phono) to mono jack cable for that purpose.

Thanks

Are you talking about 1/4" jacks? If so yes you want to use mono.

[chrisbee]

Thankyou Thomas.

The mixer has only jack sockets. No XLRs or I could use some of my existing cables. My problem now is getting a suitable cable made up for my Naim preamp which has all Din sockets. I'll have to order one from the UK.

Spearmint responded to this qestion late last night but then his post disappeared leaving me even more confused. Not difficult these days!

The Behringer instructions manual is very poor on this point showing both stereo and mono jacks. The vague instrutions for the jack sockets are wrapped round to page two leaving the illustrations orphaned on page one.

I've not used jacks on my equipment before except for headphones. All part of the learning curve of using pro equipment.

Just thinking aloud: While waiting for the cable I could temporarily place the mixer after the crossover then add the LFE to the sub channels alone. LFE does have some higher frequency content so I'd be discarding this if I took this route.

Does anybody have any thoughts about this aspect of LFE? Is it worth worrying about the HF missing from the mix?

[ThomasW]

chrisbee said:

The mixer has only jack sockets. No XLRs or I could use some of my existing cables. My problem now is getting a suitable cable made up for my Naim preamp which has all Din sockets. I'll have to order one from the UK.

See link below. It's from the EQ link on this forum

Spearmint responded to this qestion late last night but then his post disappeared leaving me even more confused. Not difficult these days!

Posts only disappear if I delete them and I rarely delete posts

The Behringer instructions manual is very poor on this point showing both stereo and mono jacks. The vague instrutions for the jack sockets are wrapped round to page two leaving the illustrations orphaned on page one.

I've not used jacks on my equipment before except for headphones. All part of the learning curve of using pro equipment.

www.vandenhul.com/artpap/wiring.htm

Just thinking aloud: While waiting for the cable I could temporarily place the mixer after the crossover then add the LFE to the sub channels alone. LFE does have some higher frequency content so I'd be discarding this if I took this route.

Does anybody have any thoughts about this aspect of LFE? Is it worth worrying about the HF missing from the mix?

Seems to me you're taking something that should be relatively easy, rethinking it so much the problem is becoming orders of magnitude more complex. Perhaps you can get some medication for that.... ;D

Anyway I'll check back later today. The RMAF 2006 is on today and I'll be spending part of the day listening to $400,000.00 electrostatic system Ray Kimber has installed to demo his IsoMike DSD recordings





www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/456874.html

[ken]

WOW ;D

[chrisbee]

Wow indeed!

[cameron]

admin said:

Anyway I'll check back later today. The RMAF 2006 is on today and I'll be spending part of the day listening to $400,000.00 electrostatic system Ray Kimber has installed to demo his IsoMike DSD recordings

Holy smokes! So that's where all uber-high profits from silver cables go... Just one more reason to like DIY cables as well.

-- Cameron

[chrisbee]

cameron said:

Holy smokes! So that's where all uber-high profits from silver cables go... Just one more reason to like DIY cables as well.

-- Cameron

And those things are only the tweeters!

You should see the subwoofer!

[norpus]

Awesome
I could only fit one of those electrostats in my room however

Mono just wouldn't do it for me, sorry I'll just have to get a refund

[chrisbee]

norpus said:

Awesome
I could only fit one of those electrostats in my room however

Mono just wouldn't do it for me, sorry I'll just have to get a refund

They'd be rubbish without an IB.

BTW: I have DTS!

WOTW + BHD = OMG!

I was unprepared!

I'm still shaking!

I'm hoping for a full recovery.

;D

[norpus]

Good to hear Chrisbee
(I think that was you - we had an earthquake registered this morning and I was wondering whom on the Cult it was)

[chrisbee]

The SQ isn't what it was in stereo straight off the DVDP. I still haven't any cables that I can use on the Naim 4-Pin Din output socket to connect the mixer. At least I have the dynamics I paid for. This didn't happen in stereo or DD 5.1. Neither off the DVDP or the Processor. It seems DD 5.1 automatically introduces dynamic compression when certain speakers are set to none or small or downmixed to stereo from 5.1. DTS does not. As I have just discovered by running DTS for the first time on my system. It meant changing the settings in the DVDP to PCM/Stream as well as making the necessary changes in the processor menu.

[thudd]

So let's see if I can nut this out, because I'll probably end up with a similar setup because I also want to get the best out both 2ch and LFE.

You send the output from your 2ch pre (or it could be the L+R output from a processor if you weren't using an outboard pre) and from the LFE out on the processor into the MX882 mixer. You then feed that into the CX2310 crossover to split off the 'highs' to your main speakers and the lows to your IB. The low output from the CX2310 then goes into the BFD for eqing and then to the IB amp. Is that right?

But then if the mains are set to 'Large' and sub to 'No', what is going via the LFE output that would require the mixer? This is where I get a bit lost - if you're just running a single processor and not an outboard pre, how do you get it to output a full range signal for a 2ch source and LFE for surround. And what happens when you bring sacd into the mix?

[ThomasW]

thudd said:

So let's see if I can nut this out, because I'll probably end up with a similar setup because I also want to get the best out both 2ch and LFE.

For most people this situation is significantly less complicated because they use a 2 channel preamp with analog by-pass.

[chrisbee]

thudd

You described the situation so perfectly I too begin to wonder what the mixer is for. ;D

I'm hoping the mixer will still allow me to reconnect the Front Mains to the analogue outputs on the DVDP. LFE will then be mixed in from the processor.

The SQ from the Yamaha processor is not remotely as good as the analogue outputs on the DVDP. I'm just hoping I don't lose the incredible dynamics which I have just discovered hiding in my system.

My system is (very) slowly evolving from a straight stereo setup to allow us to enjoy surround sound on films. I was just very unwilling to sacrifice SQ in the process.

It all started when I added an SVS cylinder using high level connections for listening to organ music. The tremendous bass triggered an interest in films. The VHS player was quickly replaced by a modest NAD T533 DVDP. I tried a cheapish AVR at home but took it back the same morning. Then I discovered the (now discontinued) Yamaha E800 3.1 processor. This gave me rear channels without losing me my superb SQ on the Front Mains.

Then the IB replaced the SVS. This meant adding pro-gear boxes so I could still use the analogue front mains signal. But I was still denied my LFE. The mixer LFE is the next step. Oh, and I also have a matching center speaker in the post at this very moment.

Quite simply I do no like the sound of affordable surround receivers. Those I have heard emphasize the higher frequencies giving a scratchy quality to ambient sounds and spoil the natural sound of voices and soundtrack music. Listening to the Naim on analogue output from DVDs just sounds so natural (real) that I will not give it up just for films. It is rather like comparing a good wine with rough cider.

While I could easily afford a high end processor or AVR I really don't see the point of trying to get the investment approved by the Head Gardener. The entire system would need to be upgraded to make any sense of the outlay on fancy new electronics. I would still need my separate stereo system to enjoy music for many hours each day. The number of boxes involved is getting very silly now but I still feel that maintaining the SQ on films is worth it. Besides, sneaking a few hundred more dollars worth of kit into the system at intervals is comparatively painless. I always blame Thomas for the latest (essential) addition and the Head Gardener can only shrug and accept the new dust collector.

Or, as the Irish saying goes when asked how to get from A to B. "I wouldn't start from here!"

[chrisbee]

All the plans of mice and men do oft but go astray...

I'm afraid the mixer working on stereo analogue out + LFE doesn't work.

Analogue stereo out is a downmix of the rears as well. So the front mains are playing the main + rears when surround material is played.

I also discovered the SQ wasn't as good in analogue stereo from the DVDP as Main out from the 3.1 Yamaha processor when using a center speaker.

Careful calibration of the new center speaker with the mains and rears using "LFE to Mains" is perfectly acceptable SQ for films.

So now I have a brand new mixer sitting there doing nothing and a load more cables for the storage box.