Guys Room

[shs]

Hello all! I am new to this site as is obvious. I am set for my sub needs in HT as I have invested in an SVS Ultra 13 last spring and I am renting after a "wonderful" divorce a few years back.

Anyway, I digress....

My brother has a "shed" back in the hills af GA actually a tin shack in his back yard on a lake that the guys go to to shoot pool, play darts and grab a cold one or...ummmmm....six and we have a great time. I have been supplying him with my castaway equipment and he has a decent sound system that fills this "shack" with tunes. Knowing that the requirements are for loud classic rock music at increasing loud levels...ie; each drink seems to affect hearing levels we tend to increase the sound to it's capacitiy each, ummm event we have there.

Ok, ok to the point. The shed is poorly insulated and he is currently using a reciever with about 100 watts per channel output and a sealed 160 watt sub that I "donated" to the cause. The building is approx 25' x 30' and has several leaks that substantially reduces SPL. (again, not so noticable after what seems to be investment into breweries) Ahhh but the sound is so great as the shack is placed in a bit of a valley and a small lake is just feet from the double doors....accoustics are a dream come true.

I want to surprise him with an IB sub system that will rock the tin shack and blow him away as a gift next time I get back to visit.

So here go the questions...

1) Manifold with 4x15" with a behringer 2500 comes to mind at first, need input here...
2) would a 4x15" or 18" panel work better?

I understand the place is not well insulated, it WILL leak SPL and I know some will be lost because of that....it is acceptable though. I have currently given him a 8" powered sub and it substantially increased the quality of sound in the shack. Hmmm, am I being redundant? Oh well, it is Fri night and I have grilled steaks and smoked a nice stogie and I am currently enjoying my Woodford Reserve....I digress again, I'm good at that.

To head off the obvious...the current 4 speakers are full range but not very high quality speakers. However, HE is happy with the sound. I hear a real lack of low frequency "thump" in the system even though there was an improvement with the sealed cheapo sub I gave him. ( the former unit I used before I invested in the SVS)

BTW the Ultra is awesome in my HT....at least as much as I can push it in my HT.

[ThomasW]

Hi,

This is one of the rare occasions where I think ported subs are a better option.

The rearwave from the IB will carry all over the lake. Does he have neighbors? If so they won't appreciate an IB.

And my guess is if this really is where the boys hang out, they're going to appreciate the sonic characteristics of a ported sub more that that of an IB

[jimcant]

shs,

Thomas may well be right, but you sound like my kind of guys
The more you drink, the better the music sounds ;D

My IB is in a leaky shed too, albeit with insulation between inner and outer walls of corrugated iron, but still vented to the great outdoors. My neighbours have not complained yet, but the nearest ones are probably 10 miles away and have not worked out where the rumbling is coming from yet, so I'm still cool.

Good luck with your deliberations, but don't rule out IB, if there is any chance you can make it work in your situation.

Cheers,
Jim.

[chrisbee]

This sounds like a job for.... Steve Callas!

(thinking of the wildlife and neighbours)

Few neighbours would have the balls to confront a bunch of drunks playing loud music in a leaky shack. This quickly leads to stress, frustration and rage.

So the consequences of ignoring your neighbours may eventually be catastrophic... particularly where there are such lax gun laws and so few witnesses.

[jimcant]

Nah,

If they get wind of what is going on, you invite them over for a few brews and all is forgiven ;D After that you can compare the respective firepower available.

That is what I would do ;D

[chrisbee]

Living 10 miles from your nearest neighbour may be protection enough. (for them)

Just pray you don't get a low altitude inversion layer wile you are enjoying a film.

Ground hugging infrasonics can travel several times round the globe.

4 x 18"s? Are yer feeling lucky.... Mate?

[shs]

Neighbors??? Humph! That's his problem. LOL

No, actually there are a few that come over to "enjoy" as well. Across the lake it is just unimproved land for a few miles so no issues there. Oh, there is the fire ring and some benches that generally catch the stumblers before they experience the lake effect up close.

From what I gather Thomas is saying that a ported sub will give more visceral effects and an IB will deliver a smoother range of bass as it tends to cover the whole range (if properly made) and less peaks in frequency. Is that a true summation?

Then what about a combination? Use a ported sub and tune it to deliver the 100hz-200hz "hit you in the chest range" and use the IB to smoothly cover the rest of the range and of course overlap where needed. I do have an SPL meter and could easily tune the system as needed. At least I think the characteristics of this room might be wildly different from one side to the next, however there will be no complaints. He thinks it is wonderful now.....he has no clue what he is missing.

I would primarily be using the IB for very low frequencies in this case so I might even be able to use a twin 18" manifold. At least in my feeble mind this makes sense.

Thomas, what the heck, you can't discourage me exploring these things. I have to live vicariously through my brother as I am living in a community that would string me up if I turn my bass up at home. I have found a new toy and I must play!!!

[ThomasW]

Dec 6, 2008 8:11:34 GMT -7 shs said:

From what I gather Thomas is saying that a ported sub will give more visceral effects and an IB will deliver a smoother range of bass as it tends to cover the whole range (if properly made) and less peaks in frequency. Is that a true summation?

Nope, what I'm saying is a IB is more like the Formula 1 of subs. Sounds to me like something from the drag racing world is more appropriate to this particular situation, and that would be a ported box.

Then what about a combination?

Would you mix coke with your 16 yr old Lagavulin ....

If you want output up to 200Hz that's done with bass bins or a box sub placed near the mains.

[jimcant]

Hey shs,

I may have been a little "excited" with my previous remarks
I can see where you are coming from though.
Any chance of a pic of this den of iniquity? ;D

I could be wrong, but with your stated musical preferences, infrasonics may not be too much of an issue, however structural movement and rattles may be accentuated.
I do get some occasionally, but turning up the volume some more usually fixes that ;D

I guess you know that you may also have an issue with the double doors if they are normally left open during your sessions.
I also suspect that 2 18's would not be enough for you in that size room.

I suppose if you are insistent on trying an IB, you could use non IB specific drivers and if it doesn't work out, use these drivers in something more along the lines that Thomas has proposed.

Cheers,
Jim.

[shs]

Dec 6, 2008 10:55:47 GMT -7 ThomasW said:

Nope, what I'm saying is a IB is more like the Formula 1 of subs. Sounds to me like something from the drag racing world is more appropriate to this particular situation, and that would be a ported box.

Would you mix coke with your 16 yr old Lagavulin ....

If you want output up to 200Hz that's done with bass bins or a box sub placed near the mains.

Interesting response Thomas.

What I want is clean bass in all ranges. What I stated is that I enjoy the visceral effects of the feeling of bass in the range I mentioned. I also read in this lounge that IB's tend to give a full range of bass in a very "accurate" reproduction. Some here have commented that they could no longer "feel" the reproduction of bass in the ranges I mentioned. I rather enjoy those effects.

No, I would not mix coke with a good single malt scotch or a good bourbon for that matter, however I would drop a small ice cube in the two fingers of pleasure to allow the elixir to open up and allow me to enjoy its full flavor and aroma. Since we are speaking in analogies now...;-)

Thanks for the responses guys, I guess I will just try to create what I think might be a good solution and learn as I go.

Jimcant, I don't have pics of the place but I will get back up there in the next few months. The doors do not always stay open but sometimes they are. The building is in the process of being fully insulated, which will help with the acoustics as well.

[happyhour]

Dec 5, 2008 23:30:20 GMT -7 @chrisbee said:

Few neighbours would have the balls to confront a bunch of drunks playing loud music in a leaky shack.

Best line I have seen on here yet!

[shs]

A belated update...
Well, it's been awhile but we have made some progress but not in the sub category.

The "man cave" as it is affectionately labeled now, is coming along quite nicely. We did install 4 12xhorn speakers and upgraded the amp to a mixer/amp combo that is capable of 1200watts of output. We have an HD radio, dvd player and other input device connected and playing wonderfully but i am still yearning to get the sub system competed. The system sounds awesome but I am still planning a "baffling experience". The room is now insulated and paneled. Oh, and a nice 7 foot Harley emblem is painted on the floor with nice clear coat over it. We have built a bar with a large tree trunk and had called on some friends who are finish carpenters to take care of the details. the pool table and dart area are completed and there is a party for 200 next weekend. Too soon to complete the IB but it is really funny, he still doesn't know what he is missing. I will knock him over when it is completed.

I plan to have the IB corner installed and have started prelim plans. It is difficult being so far away. I get up there only 2-3 times a year.

I think a 4x15 array will suffice but still read quite a bit here about design and could change my design if the need arises.

I am enjoying all the other posts and appreciate the knowledge sharing....now back to my cigar and Bourbon - LATER!

[jimcant]

Welcome back shs

At last conversation, you indicated that some images may be forthcoming

The progress so far, on the non sub aspects sounds impressive
As you may have guessed, this type of project is quite dear to my heart and my circumstances similar, except for the bar, pool table and uhh friends, but I do have the shed part and nearby water ;D

I'm not really a HD man myself, and prefer the real thing rather than an emblem, in my cave (BMW of course

My mounting preferences, for IB's that is, have altered somewhat since my last post, and I am now in the manifold phase of my journey

This arrangement is certainly kinder to my rather flimsy structure and I do experience less rattles now.
You guys look like you don't do things by halves, judging from your efforts with the bar, so perhaps you are in a position to do more effective reinforcement that I was

An array would certainly look the business in your environment

Keep the reports (and pics if possible), coming.

Cheers,
Jim.

[chrisbee]

James!

This is direct encouragement!

You could face a charge of incitement to IB.

I'm no longer sure who are the real wildlife in this case.

Marvin

[shs]

Sorry Jim, did not get pics yet and won't be back for a few months. I was there in july.

In the mean time I am tied up with the significant other after she had neck fusion so my travel plans are on hold for a few weeks.

I will update as time allows.