FiCar Audio IB drivers / new site

[zeus00]

In case anyone was interested... I noticed that Ficar Audio's IB page was blank.

I wanted to check out their pricing for the IB318s.

I contacted them - and apparently they are redesigning the IB drivers a bit - and they are going to sell them on a new site (coming online in a few weeks) --- www.blueprintdrivers.com

Apparently they're had issues with people using them for car audio -- so they are going to sell them on their new web site -- specific to Home Theater drivers.

Just figured I'd pass it along - in case anyone else is working on a new IB project.

[chrisbee]

The Blueprint link seems to be password protected.

No amount of searching using all sorts of different search terms produces a direct link to Blueprint's website in Firefox, Bing, Chrome, etc...

[ThomasW]

This is now old news discussed on numerous forums.

Blueprint is a name used years ago for a line of high excursion low cost drivers, nice to see it return.

[bodhisafa]

I wonder if they will be Fi Ib3, just rebadged

[ThomasW]

My understanding is they're going to make a line of drivers for designed for home use (IB as well as other alignments). All the drivers designed for home use will wear the 'Blueprint' brand so as to differentiate them from the 'Fi' car audio drivers.

The IB3 series were designed for our needs. Those needs have not changed, so there's little need to change the drivers.

[zeus00]

>This is old news discussed on numerous forums.
I posted it here because I didn't see it mentioned on this site. In fact - I googled some and didn't see it mentioned anywhere that I could find.


>The Blueprint link seems to be password protected.
>No amount of searching using...
It's because it's coming online in a few weeks. It's not online yet. I believe that they are still developing content for it. The only reason I know about it is because an email exchange with Nick @ Ficar.

[zeus00]

From my emails with Nick - he mentioned a redesign. It sounded like the real problem was branding -- ie, customers buying them for the wrong application.

I mentioned that they the IB series was popular for IB sub builds - and he seemed well aware of that.

Do you think that they're changing them in some way to make them less desirable or suitable for IB sub builds?

I just don't want the prices to go up - since they're going to be sold as "HT drivers' now.

[chrisbee]

Thanks for the explanation for the absence of an online presence.

[ThomasW]

Feb 3, 2011 11:03:41 GMT -7 zeus00 said:

I posted it here because I didn't see it mentioned on this site. In fact - I googled some and didn't see it mentioned anywhere that I could find.

No big deal, I've just seen it mentioned on a couple different forums starting in Dec IIRC. The info has been posted usually buried in an obscure thread when someone has been in contact with Nick or Scott asking about the IB drivers since they've gone missing from the regular Fi website.

I just don't want the prices to go up - since they're going to be sold as "HT drivers' now.

Unlikely they'd charge a premium for the HT labeled drivers, that's just not the way Nick or Scott roll...

That's not to say there couldn't be an increase if the drivers are being made with upgraded parts

[lucas]

When they do get that site up and running, any word on the bigger drivers I have heard rumors about being listed?

[dave7]

My last correspondence with Nick or Nicole was Jan. 19. At that point they were hoping to have the new site up and running in about two weeks, so any time now hopefully it will be available.

They also said drivers would be available in about 6 weeks as best they could tell at that time, and pricing for 18s was hopefully going to be about $220/driver with a discount for four or more.

The reason for the change seemed to be mis-use of the IB3. That is...folks were using them in the wrong kind of applications.

I was recommended to go with Fi IB3 drivers from advice over at Home Theater Shack, and frankly I don't see too many other IB specific drivers out there. My project is to build two 3-driver vertical arrays on my front wall, about 40" apart from each other centered between my mains. The baffles should sit about 30" behind my acoustically transparent 9' screen.

Needless to say, I am chomping-at-the-bit to get this project commenced and the drivers in-hand so I can join in on the fun you all are having.

[dave7]

A few more things:

They did say the spec will be essentially the same, but the depth on the 18 will be 10" not 9.5".

They will also have a 15" driver.

I did not inquire about any others.

[chrisbee]

6 drivers is an odd number. Probably requiring three x 2 Ohms in series per channel. Not ideal.

Or, three, higher impedance drivers in parallel. Fi haven't previously made 12 or 15 ohm drivers. Anything lower than three x 12 ohms in parallel is putting a stressful load on the amp.

There is no sensible series-parallel wiring option with 6 drivers. which offers a normal load.

[dave7]

Through much discussion I thought the attached diagram of three drivers wired in series would be no big deal yielding a 6 ohm load. The IB3 will be available as a SVC 2 ohm or a SVC 4 ohm.

When looking at amps, I started with the recommendation of an EP-4000. After that, I went looking for higher quality alternatives only to keep returning to the EP-4000. It seems to be a mainstay amp for this sort of thing. According to folks using this amp, it easily handles 2 ohm loads in other IB set-ups. I am asking for an easier 6 ohm load.

It might be literally an odd number of drivers, which I realize is uncommon, but I am not making a manifold. As mentioned, the drivers will be in two vertical arrays. So I am not sure why there would be a problem. Am I missing something?

Attachments:

[dave7]

I read my own post - I do not intend to sound antagonistic. I sincerely wish feedback in case I am missing something. This will be a big build project. I don't want to get tripped up along the way with any details.

The reason for 6 drivers is packaging. 8 drivers would take up just enough more space that it would become a bit overbearing. Not because of the in-room situation, but more because of the rear "vent" room.

The rear room is still a useable room where my kids play and keep their "stuff". I have to cut rather large holes in the wall for the rear of the drivers to vent. I will be making some sort of grill to cover these holes, make it look presentable, and provide access for service if needed. Hopefully I can make it look integrated so my wife doesn't freak.

As it stands, I'll likely be doing a 8" x 60" opening which equates to 250% of the Fi IB3's Sd. This seems to be far more than guys are doing with some of the tight manifolds I've seen.

The main baffle will be supported by 1.75" LVL, which is the laminated wood used for long structural supporting headers. It should be more than sufficient to support and isolate the drivers and their vibration. I'll attach it to the concrete below (basement room) and the joists above. The wall itself is a non-load bearing 2x4 wall on 16" centers. I don't feel this would be sufficient to support six 18" drivers.

I am getting off topic now...sorry. I fear starting a build thread because I like asking questions. Once I actually commence - I'll start a build thread.

[ThomasW]

We're well aware of how to wire drivers to make 6 work.

That said....

The fact is that running multiple drivers all wired in series doesn't make for the best sound quality. Something the forum hosting the graphic apparently doesn't know

To obtain the best sound quality it's better to choose a configuration and number of drivers that allows a combination of series and parallel connections

[dave7]

Thomas,

I have read all through this site and must have missed what your referring to. Can you please point me in the right direction.

What is wrong with the schematic, and what is an alternative?

Thanks,

Dave

[dave7]

Is the attached image a better alternative? I am not sure on this stuff, and apparently haven't found the right info in spite of planning this for two months now.

Attachments:

[chrisbee]

Don't worry, Dave7. Nobody is reading you as antagonistic. This is a place of friendly discussion and mutual support. Every successful IB is a new convert to better bass SQ, Who will then sell the IB idea by word of mouth. It is in all our interests that every IB is built to the best specification within the physical and budgetary constraints of the owner.

Back in my youth it was always said that drivers in series were a bad idea because it exaggerated driver resonances. Drivers in parallel are good because this damps driver resonances.

The $64k question is whether lots of drivers in series would be damped enough by having them in parallel sets.

Two sets of three in series could easily be paralleled. But this combination would need to be driven by a bridged amp. Not ideal unless the total load seen by the amp was near to 8 ohms.

Six x 2 Ohm drivers would offer 6 Ohms total load in series-parallel.

(2+2+2) + (2+2+2) / 2

Doable, load wise, but you still have all those drivers in series.

The easy way to solve the 6 driver problem is with three channels of power amp. This is a rather expensive option for typical AV subwoofer budgets. Thinking in terms of four 18" drivers will ease the pain and still provide you with astonishing performance.

As to your baffle material: Six 18"s will see only the weakest part of your structure and will shake it hard. A baffle supported (however rigidly) only at at the top and bottom will flex like a bow.

A baffle wider than one driver wide will flex across the width. A baffle with driver cut-outs is not the rigid board you started with. It is a flimsy net and probably made of an unsuitable material to cope with the flexure loads.

Any baffle movement will diminish output and rob you of dynamics and detail. It will also store energy in the mass. Which will be released after the real event as it unwinds. This will smear transients, introduce unwanted noise and severely handicap your hoped-for superior SQ.

The area of a flexing baffle wall is far larger than your flapping cones. Imagine how little it has to move to make far more noise than your puny set of 18" drivers. It has far more displacement, when moving only a fraction of millimetre, than any affordable number of IB drivers fitted into it.

If you insist on using arrays you must think how you can constrain the reactive forces to negligible proportions. The best and safest way is to use solid brick, solid block or solid concrete. With the drivers fixed to small, stiff sub-baffles. Very deep, massive wooden beams might work too. A deep, box matrix might work but would probably be closing in the drivers as much as a manifold unless well perforated.

Manifolds easily solve the reaction forces problem. If they intrude on a usable room they can be used to support a solid working surface. To act as a useful desk in a play area perhaps? For painting and drawing and doing puzzles and playing with toys. Just add some suitable chairs. You can have lots of storage space for toy boxes underneath too.

[dave7]

Thanks Chrisbee.

I will compose the beginning of a build thread before I highjack this thread completely and Thomas has to intervene.

Adding a second EP-4000 won't break the bank. I'd prefer to do this right the first time. They list about $370 here in the US.

Re the baffle - since the drivers are 10" deep and the wall is only 4" thick, I do have to build the baffle out anyway so the back of the drivers don't protrude into that back room. This is where the engineered beams come into play. I will illustrate in my build thread.

Just to be on-topic...still no Blueprint site...