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Post by thecrypt on Jan 19, 2007 22:21:55 GMT -7
Well, I'm planning on doing an IB, but I don't know what driver I should be looking for in the 18" area. I've heard TC Sounds is good, but I just want whatever will be the best 18" driver under $1500. I don't know how many I should put around or if I should do it manifold or line array.
I was thinking 12 to 18 of them would be enough, It's going to be a 22x12x16 room I think. Thanks for your help guys.
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Post by ThomasW on Jan 19, 2007 23:11:23 GMT -7
Your plan is to use 12-18 18" drivers?
Were you planning on people being able to breath in this room?
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Post by thecrypt on Jan 20, 2007 20:00:28 GMT -7
I plan to be able to hit hard way down deep, but I don't know how many drivers I need. I also wondered if it'd work better to use IB subs for each speaker and also the 18s for the LFE and deepest bass, or separate the enclosures for each of the subs I'll use for the speakers to extend that particular channel's response to 20hz or lower from the LFE. I'm just new to IB and wondered what I would need to do in order to provide the deepest bass for a high-end home theater. About having that many drivers, what SPL would that be approaching since you asked if I planned on people being able to breathe  |
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Post by ThomasW on Jan 20, 2007 21:02:55 GMT -7
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Post by PeterW on Jan 20, 2007 22:33:14 GMT -7
... Most of the IB's that you will find people have around here have 4 15 or 18 inch drivers. The number, size and excursion capability of the drivers is dependant on room size and how loud and low you wish to go. To properly advise, we need to know the room dimensions, and the potential IB rearspace dimensions. The extension of an IB can reach flat down to 5-10hz.. Since it is a simple direct radiation system, the lower you want to go, the more system air dicplacement is needed. Roughly four times the dicplacement for a one octave drop in frequencey. I think this is for quarter space (correct me if im wrong). Twelve good 18 inch drivers would be nearly four times the dicplaceement that i would consider average.(room size really makes this relative) You could theoretically have really low extension,~5hz @ ~115db at listening position?  Most electronics sytems, (dvd players, recivers, amps..etc) roll off around 5 hz so you would be hard pressed to get much signal to the subs below 5 hz. |
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Post by thecrypt on Jan 20, 2007 22:39:46 GMT -7
In the case of line array or manifold, I'm going to have to do some reading. I think the LMS5400 would first of all complement the room we're going to put it in and second would be capable of greater volume for less space taken. There are going to be 9 seats (full-sized recliners (bolted down of course) with an indention in the floor for the front row making the second row able to see. As for volume, I was hoping to have ample headroom (I'm not sure how loud things are). The room is going to be sound-proofed so I wondered if building a dedicated full-sized sound-proofed enclosure (a room probably) would: 1. Make a true infinite baffle and 2. Keep sound from waking the family during the night The room is going to be very reinforced and specially acoustically treated and all equipment will be in a control room which will also be separate from the main room so that sound quality is not impacted by vibrations (not sure about the actual speakers, projector, and screen though). I'm having these people come that will use this equipment and do all these calculations to find the best locations for things to be placed, so I'll have to wait until that is done. The equipment I will make sure goes as deep as I need it to (haven't chosen equipment yet) + I hope for the system to be able to reach high volume <10hz (maybe lower) because I want it to be extremely realistic at realistic levels. Amplfier power is not a problem.  The room size is ~22x12x16 and the rearspace is yet to be built |
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Post by ThomasW on Jan 20, 2007 23:10:53 GMT -7
Without a floor plan and more information about the overall design, it's pretty difficult to contine this discussion
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Post by thecrypt on Jan 21, 2007 0:18:11 GMT -7
Well, the crew won't be here until Monday (they have the floorplan). Until then, I'll have to describe it.
22x12x16
The entrance will be the rear of the room where you go through the control room to get there. The corners are going to be 1:3 and the front projection screen will be centered in front of a center channel system behind the screen (possibly IB). The projector should be behind the listening position slightly and all channels will be full range.
I'm not quite sure what you need to know, but I can try until Monday.
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Post by PeterW on Jan 21, 2007 17:14:51 GMT -7
If you haven't read the faq and info pages, now might be good time to do so.
4224 cu ft is not too huge of a room, if you want to use the Lms-5400 (18") drivers, remember they have nearly 40mm of usable one way xmax..
Using four of these subs woud blow your mind and your wallet.
A cheaper solution with very little if any degredation of sound quality, would be using eight Fi Q18's.
Eight of these drivers with 27mm of usable one way excursion, will cost about half the amount you would pay for four Lms-5400 drivers. They would also have roughly 30% more system air dicplacement.
The Lms-5400 are very very good drivers, especially considering their Linear Motor Technology, but you could use less expensive drivers to achive the same or more total dicplacement for less $$.
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Post by thecrypt on Jan 21, 2007 20:53:22 GMT -7
I guess I'll have to choose a driver based on room aesthetics! I wonder how much power it would take to driver each array to Xmax? Oh I've read the pages several times, but it helps drive it in your brain if you read more! |
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Post by ThomasW on Jan 21, 2007 22:14:58 GMT -7
Will the drivers be exposed? Most people use somekind of cover.
One can model the performance using a box simulation program. Use the largest sealed box the program will take and see how much power is needed to drive the speakers to their Xmax.
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Post by thecrypt on Jan 26, 2007 16:16:05 GMT -7
Well, I already wrote this once, but my computer froze, so here I go again. Thanks for your help guys. The crew used this fancy equipment and we found it'd go just fine behind the screen. We chose to put 15 back there and use the VERY large space under the room as the enclosure. We chose the Anthem P5 Amplifier since it has the ability to drive ultra-low impedances. This way we could take advantage of the power available by using 3 LMS-5400's per channel taking advantage of the ability of making each .5 ohm making for around .2 ohms including cable impedance. We've opted for 2 30 amp circuits to supply it's power. I don't think I'll ever have to supply 2000 watts to each one. I don't think 60 amps at 125v can even supply that much. I could only get 7500 watts out of it anyway. Maybe in the future I can upgrade the circuit again if I can't push the woofers to Xmax. Well thanks again guys. Using the XLR inputs should help make sure there's no noise and make it go deeper. |
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oface
New Member
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Post by oface on Jan 26, 2007 23:45:04 GMT -7
you gonna post any pics of the install  |
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Post by thecrypt on Jan 28, 2007 13:12:16 GMT -7
Yeah, but I've got to get a camera first and today is NOT that day as I'm too sick + it's cold outside.  |
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ken
Full Member
Posts: 187
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Post by ken on Jan 29, 2007 4:31:27 GMT -7
Well, I already wrote this once, but my computer froze, so here I go again. Thanks for your help guys. The crew used this fancy equipment and we found it'd go just fine behind the screen. We chose to put 15 back there and use the VERY large space under the room as the enclosure. We chose the Anthem P5 Amplifier since it has the ability to drive ultra-low impedances. This way we could take advantage of the power available by using 3 LMS-5400's per channel taking advantage of the ability of making each .5 ohm making for around .2 ohms including cable impedance. We've opted for 2 30 amp circuits to supply it's power. I don't think I'll ever have to supply 2000 watts to each one. I don't think 60 amps at 125v can even supply that much. I could only get 7500 watts out of it anyway. Maybe in the future I can upgrade the circuit again if I can't push the woofers to Xmax. Well thanks again guys. Using the XLR inputs should help make sure there's no noise and make it go deeper. 15 LMS 5400's !!!  Hope your house is well built .....thats beserk, LOL |
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Post by chrisbee on Jan 29, 2007 5:34:29 GMT -7
Assuming 5 channels x 3 = a total of 15 drivers then how are the drivers actually mounted? A line array in the floor? I simply cannot imagine your own reaction to a loud transient with this much displacement and power. I think I'd be forced to leave the HT! To hide in the smallest room! |
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Post by crackyflipside on Jan 29, 2007 11:16:39 GMT -7
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Post by PeterW on Feb 5, 2007 13:37:55 GMT -7
Hmm, there was rumor of a group deal on lms 5400s on the AVS forum recently. A deal such as $600-$700 each with the group buy.  That'a only what, 10 grand plus a crown Itech 8000 to power the whole thing. (five more grand) 15K..... ;D Sounds like you really should consider getting a thigpen rotary woof,. If your budget can support a 15k IB install, it might be actually feasable to buy a rotary woofer, and use a modest IB for the rest of the sub spectrum... ;D Personally, i would rather see the 15 Lms5400's in a huge manifold playing the brown note at 136db... ;D |
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Post by crackyflipside on Feb 7, 2007 12:16:37 GMT -7
I say 15 LMS5400 have more advantage than the TRW above ~5hz.
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Post by arande2 on Feb 12, 2007 2:14:39 GMT -7
140l of displacement in a room that size??? Dude are you trying to kill yourself??? |
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