Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 1, 2008 3:48:00 GMT -7
Can anyone comment on these three IB drivers? I want 4 for a ceiling or floor manifold , for a HT playing mainly movies. Please, no flames/comments re John - just the drivers. What I have to keep in mind is that if I go through the floor, the rear of the drivers will be in an open sided crawl space (2'-3' high). I live in a sub-tropical area close to the ocean, and constantly annoyed by Mud Wasps who love to build mud nests (incubation chambers) in the smallest nook or cranny. I thought I could build a frame around the manifold and drivers, and cover it with flywire screen. Would that alter the Q of the "enclosure". The reason I'm leaning more toward the floor, is that I don't think I have enough vertical space up above the ceiling, thanks to the raking hip roof. I'm new to IB, so any comments would be appreciated.  Thanks |
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Post by carvernut on Apr 1, 2008 7:21:24 GMT -7
Can anyone comment on these three IB drivers? I want 4 for a ceiling or floor manifold , for a HT playing mainly movies. Please, no flames/comments re John - just the drivers. What I have to keep in mind is that if I go through the floor, the rear of the drivers will be in an open sided crawl space (2'-3' high). I live in a sub-tropical area close to the ocean, and constantly annoyed by Mud Wasps who love to build mud nests (incubation chambers) in the smallest nook or cranny. I thought I could build a frame around the manifold and drivers, and cover it with flywire screen. Would that alter the Q of the "enclosure". The reason I'm leaning more toward the floor, is that I don't think I have enough vertical space up above the ceiling, thanks to the raking hip roof. I'm new to IB, so any comments would be appreciated. Thanks welcome to the Cult Nordo  quick question: how big is your crawl space? cubit feet aproximately And no, the flywire wouldn't interfere with the system Q via it's not going to provide any kind of interference to the backwave coming off the drivers and yeah you woulnd't want wasps crawling up into your drivers and ruining them...  also a room layout and schematic would be nice  welcome again, Phil |
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 1, 2008 7:29:08 GMT -7
Look at the T/S parameters for your comparison.
The DPL-15 when available will move slightly more air than an AE-IB15. The Tempest of course moves the greatest amount of air.
In your situation availability of the drivers and their cost is probably a bigger consideration that any differences between the drivers themselves.
Of equal concern is where and how the drivers will be used. So it's handy to have information about placement in the room, size of the room, distance from the IB opening to the listening position and desired output levels.
Protecting the IB and drivers with insect screen won't be a problem.
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Post by aespeakers on Apr 1, 2008 7:55:48 GMT -7
What I have to keep in mind is that if I go through the floor, the rear of the drivers will be in an open sided crawl space (2'-3' high). I live in a sub-tropical area close to the ocean, and constantly annoyed by Mud Wasps who love to build mud nests (incubation chambers) in the smallest nook or cranny. One thing we can do is fully coat and seal the back side of the cone as well as the front side. This will protect from moisture in the air in your environment. We use a zinc plating on all the steel parts which is very corrosion resistant with moisture. As Thomas said, this wouldn't be an issue at all. No audible effects and won't change the Q of the "enclosure". Regarding the driver comparisons how much output you have is based simply on displacement. You can compare displacement per $$ spent and you can easily compare th the difference in output capability using the following formula: SPL= 20 Log (Vd * F^2) + 48.4 Picking 20hz, the IB15 with 3.05L($32.79 per L) would give 110.13 dB The Tempest X with 4.27L ($43.33 per L) would give 113dB I don't have the DPL -15 parameters handy since it doesnt' look like they're available currently. You can get your approximate needs by back calculating. Say you want 110dB at 10Hz. Back calculate how much displacement you need, then calculate how many drivers you need and how much they will cost. Keep in mind the formula is for 1M half space and doesnt' include any kind of room gain. Also, I believe you are overseas? Maybe I am thinking of someone else though but I believe you had requested a shipping quote. Another factor for you would be in the weight for shipping costs. The IB15 is intentionally made light as it doesnt' need a lot of motor to get the Q where it should be. Packaged they are only 19lbs each. When you start talking multiple drivers this can be a large cost difference. John |
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Post by bricktop on Apr 1, 2008 9:30:43 GMT -7
Per Kevin Haskins @ AVS
Price is $125 each, and there will be discounts in 4 & 8 packs. Shipping should be reasonable because these are half the weight of the Tempest-X.
DPL-15 Pre-Production Parameters:
Re: 6.1 Ohm
Le: 1.7 mH
Fs: 19.5 Hz
Qms: 3.27
Qes: 0.84
Qts: 0.67
Mms: 271g
Cms: 0.23 mm/N
Vas: 232L
Sd: 830 cm^2
Vd: 3.65L
BL: 15.67
SPL: 85.2 1W/1M
X-max: 22mm
X-mech 29mm
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 1, 2008 11:25:02 GMT -7
The OP is in Australia, so pricing for any driver will be higher. ..
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 1, 2008 15:05:32 GMT -7
Thanks Guys As Thomas said I live in Australia (sunny Queensland, to be exact  ). I can get the Tempest-X and the DPL-15 (when available) in Australia and although the shop price is more expensive, the shipping costs are only about $50. The IB15s, on the other hand, have to be shipped direct from AE which makes the shop price much cheaper, but the shipping shoots up to $328 au. The bottom line is the IB15s are still much cheaper. I was just after a comparison of performance. The HT is 6.05m(19'10") x 4.25m(13'11") x 2.5m(8'2")average height. The crawl space is completely open on all sides, so the enclosure is infinite. I was going to add some photos to this post, but I could figure out how.  (Thomas, is there a Help section for things like that?) John I have put an enquiry into AE and Tavia gave me the shipping costs. I like the idea of spraying the cone, surround, etc. What do you suggest spraying the cone with that would not alter it's compliance or Q? Kevin Thanks for the T/S and price of the DPL-15. I think a lot of people would be interested in that info. Thanks everyone. |
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 1, 2008 16:16:00 GMT -7
Hi,
This forums software doesn't support attachments. If you want to post pictures they need to be uploaded to a hosting service, then links can be placed in your posts.
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Post by aespeakers on Apr 1, 2008 20:36:29 GMT -7
I have put an enquiry into AE and Tavia gave me the shipping costs. I like the idea of spraying the cone, surround, etc. What do you suggest spraying the cone with that would not alter it's compliance or Q? We currently brush 2 coats of a damping material on the back of the surround and then spray 2 coats on the front of the cone and surround once the driver is finished. This seals everything well. We could just simply spray 2 coats on the back covering the whole cone. Typically not necessary, but easy to do. John |
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 2, 2008 3:48:09 GMT -7
Ok This is a link to Frappr, where I have uploaded a couple of photos of my home theater inside, outside, and the crawl space. Hopefully they will clarify what I've been trying to describe. www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=4981110&pid=9569695&myphotos=1BTW, if I keep the IB drivers at the same distance from the main listening position as the fronts, then they will be about 3.15m(10'4") away. |
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Post by norpus on Apr 2, 2008 4:45:54 GMT -7
Hi Nordo I can vouch for the build quality of the Tempest-X is very good. I can also highly recommend the local Melbourne supplier who has done the right thing by me many times. I believe 72 Tempest-X landed in Aust last week, so supply isn't a problem. Personally, if I had the choice between the DPL15 and the TempestX, (which I did), I would still take the better driver for an IB install. This was the exact reason I did not get my original Tempests reconed - it was better to have the better driver in the Tempest X. The DPL15 appears to me to be made to a lesser weight and price - still well suitable for IB that it has been designed, but my vote is with the Tempests. There would be no wait for them either - waiting is always hard hehe tinyurl.com/2manjj |
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 2, 2008 6:08:22 GMT -7
Hi norpus. I've been in contact with the distributor. He also mentioned that the DPL-15s will probably sell in Australia for about $330, which, as he points out, puts them only $20 cheaper than the Tempest-X. The IB15s are a lot cheaper, even with shipping, but the other two are locally supplied and supported. I'm a cheap-skate at heart, but at the same time, I'm after quality and longevity. That's why I've asked the opinion of the forum to help finalise my decision. From what I can see in other threads in this forum, both the Tempest-X and the IB-15 have 100% satisfaction ratings from their owners (or maybe they're just comparing their new IB with their previous sealed or ported box) |
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Post by carvernut on Apr 3, 2008 6:44:22 GMT -7
The IB15s are a lot cheaper, even with shipping, but the other two are locally supplied and supported. I'm a cheap-skate at heart, but at the same time, I'm after quality and longevity. That's why I've asked the opinion of the forum to help finalise my decision. From what I can see in other threads in this forum, both the Tempest-X and the IB-15 have 100% satisfaction ratings from their owners (or maybe they're just comparing their new IB with their previous sealed or ported box) the IB15's are cheap, yes... but they are also very high in quality, you don't need a massive magnet or gold plated basket or all the other marketing hype so many other companies use to try to sell their product, AE manufactures a fantastic line of drivers at a fantastic price and yet is much higher quality than many drivers two and three times their price and even without all the 'bling', they look very sharp in a simple, yet elegent way i'v used alot of car audio products, and the closest thing these remind me of are the old Rockford Fosgate punch series of the mid 90's... simple build, good efficiency, simple yet somehow very subtly agressive looks, good exertion, and a lightweight wood-pulp cone that sounds fantastic and accurate every time oh yeah, and like the Rockwoods, the AEIB15's are cheap ;D and sorry John, but the Rockwoods Fosgates hold a special place in my heart... they were my first "lover" if you will of the audio world  ;D such a shame they are so horrid now |
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 4, 2008 1:11:34 GMT -7
the IB15's are cheap, yes... but they are also very high in quality, you don't need a massive magnet or gold plated basket or all the other marketing hype so many other companies use to try to sell their product, AE manufactures a fantastic line of drivers at a fantastic price and yet is much higher quality than many drivers two and three times their price. I probably will go with the IB-15s. My only worry (and I gues this applies to buying from any small manufacturer), is that if I blow one driver in 5 or 6 years time, will I be able to get a replacement. I discovered IBs because a single driver blew in my 4 driver subs, and I can't get a replacement, so I went hunting for an upgrade for my subs and ended here. I had dealings with John from AE about 8 years ago. I remember him as being very enthusiastic, although a little disorganised. and sorry John, but the Rockwoods Fosgates hold a special place in my heart... they were my first "lover" if you will of the audio world ;D A lot of people lost their virginity in the back of a car. |
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 4, 2008 2:50:33 GMT -7
Does anyone know the physical dimensions of the IB-15?
Thanks
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 4, 2008 7:05:53 GMT -7
I probably will go with the IB-15s. My only worry (and I gues this applies to buying from any small manufacturer), is that if I blow one driver in 5 or 6 years time, will I be able to get a replacement. 5-6yrs is a lifetime in this industry, also the technology advances quickly. Unless you buy from a major mfgr like JBL, it's rather unrealistic to expect replacement drivers to be available after 5-6yrs. |
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Post by aespeakers on Apr 4, 2008 8:55:08 GMT -7
Does anyone know the physical dimensions of the IB-15? Thanks The mounting hole diameter is 14" and the hole for recess mounting should be 15 5/8". The mounting depth is 7.5" and total overall depth 8". As far as this goes, 5-6yrs is really an eternity for the speaker world. If you look at the major car audio companies out there, home theater companies, etc, they turn around a new product line every few months. The pro audio stuff is built more for the long term. Companies like EV sell replacement parts for everything from I believe about 30 yrs back. As far as blowing an IB15 goes, that alone is very difficult, as it should be with any well designed IB driver. When you have enough physical clearance so it is impossible to bottom a coil on the back plate, it's hard to physically damage it. You'd literally have to tear the suspension right off. This would require massive amounts of power, as the motor strength goes down significantly when you surpass Xmax. You have about 7.5mm more travel before the suspension runs out so the motor has very little chance to push the driver this hard. We also use a full nomex spider on these. More expensive, but much stronger than other materials. If you had more Xmax than suspension travel as some drivers do, it would be much easier to tear a driver apart. The IB15 is also made to be very bass efficient, taking literally only about 1/4 of the rated thermal power handling to move to full Xmax at the lowest frequencies. That means burning up the coil is a very uncommon occurrence. As of yet, I am not aware of a single IB15 of the new design that has failed. One was shipped out with a manufacturing issue where the added mass was rattling inside and that was replaced right away. Regardless of all this, the parts for the IB15 are very modular. We use the same cone, spider, and VC on several other models and stock these parts in good quantity. The cone/surround has been used since 1995 by Lambda Acoustics and is easily available. I see no reason that rebuilds could not be supported long into the future. Also, through some tough and difficult times I have remained in business since originally started in 1997 under another name. Things are now looking to be more stable than ever, so I hope to be here for the long run. John |
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 4, 2008 15:59:59 GMT -7
5-6yrs is a lifetime in this industry, also the technology advances quickly. Unless you buy from a major mfgr like JBL, it's rather unrealistic to expect replacement drivers to be available after 5-6yrs. I see what you mean. I guess I was pretty pissed off when I recently blew a 10" driver (INF-10), which I couldn't replace, in my double driver dual ported diy sub. Blowing one driver effectively made the sub useless. The sub was my first venture into diy, and I spent many months reading and learning, and then designing and refining the design, and finally building my dream sub - which turned out pretty good. The problem with ported enclosures (and many other alignments), is that the design is very specific for that driver and it's T/S parameters. At least with IBs and manifolds, the only parameter you are locking yourself into with your design is the diameter of the drivers frame. If you want to swap drivers in 5 or 6 years time, it's a simple task - especially if they are the same diameter. BTW, I'm still having problems convincing the wife that a hole in the floor is a good thing.  John Thanks for the dimensions. I am trying to figure out how and where the manifold and drivers will fit. The floor joists are quite deep (10"), so I probably won't shape the manifold to fit between the joists, but trim out an area to enable me to build a square manifold that won't be too deep and will enable me to locate the drivers closer to floor level. ie no possibility of pipe effect. |
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Post by ThomasW on Apr 4, 2008 16:23:31 GMT -7
Thanks for the dimensions. I am trying to figure out how and where the manifold and drivers will fit. The floor joists are quite deep (10"), so I probably won't shape the manifold to fit between the joists, but trim out an area to enable me to build a square manifold that won't be too deep and will enable me to locate the drivers closer to floor level. ie no possibility of pipe effect. 10" joist depth is no problem. You'd need to have something longer than 4'-6' before pipe resonance become an issue. |
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Nordo
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Post by Nordo on Apr 4, 2008 19:49:58 GMT -7
10" joist depth is no problem. You'd need to have something longer than 4'-6' before pipe resonance become an issue. Thanks Thomas I wasn't too sure when pipe resonances are excited. At the same time though, I want to try to keep the manifold up high, quite clear of the ground (fully open crawl space). |
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