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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 24, 2006 20:24:26 GMT -7
Ok guys, it was just yesterday that I heard about IB when I was searching about subs in avsforum.com. I currently own one cylinder type sub which is SVS 20-39 Pci. I love it. It gives tight, clean bass and low upto 18hz. However, I always feel that building your own subwoofer is a different type of experience. Something that you can really be proud of. So, I'm leaning towards making an IB in the future for my future dedicated home theater. I would like to know if an IB setup can really make me happy just like the current SVS I own. My maximum budget for IB is $600. What are the things I need to buy? Below is a link to a plan for my HT. It's a top view. If you will see, I have 2 subwoofers in the wall near the storage. I'm planning to put the IB setup below the screen, just a little above the stage. I also don't know if my budget will allow me to have a 4 driver setup and at the same time, still pressuring my dedicated home theater room. Room is 17feet by 12 feet by 9ft. So what do you think about my plans? restricted.dyndns.org/target/ht_in_basement.gifSo guys, please share some knowledge to me, links to step by steps of making an IB setup. I really want to become part of your cult!  |
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 24, 2006 21:53:03 GMT -7
Hi,
Regardless of the current budget you want to build for upgrades.
If you've read the FAQ pages (highly recommended) you know IB's require more drivers for the same output level compared to a standard sub.
Realize that the rear wave is just as loud as the front wave so sound will be traveling up the stairs.
Properly designed and built an IB will blow away your SVS.
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 24, 2006 22:32:11 GMT -7
Is there a way to minimize the sound travelling to upstairs? And how would I know if I built an IB that is properly designed since I'm a newbie and never had one? What driver brand do you recommend though? Can you please include the link to the driver and the amp?
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Post by Darren on Jul 25, 2006 6:49:17 GMT -7
You have lots of reading to do. Check out the FAQs here and read up on some of the threads. It's all there. When you have questions about that we are here to help.
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 25, 2006 7:07:16 GMT -7
Is there a way to minimize the sound travelling to upstairs? And how would I know if I built an IB that is properly designed since I'm a newbie and never had one? What driver brand do you recommend though? Can you please include the link to the driver and the amp? To get info about design and construction, read the numerous FAQ pages we have available. Also look at the gallery pages to see what others have done. The only thing I can think of to attenuate the sound going up stairs is to make a false wall lined with insulation that closes off the end of the storage area. |
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 25, 2006 8:07:07 GMT -7
You have lots of reading to do. Check out the FAQs here and read up on some of the threads. It's all there. When you have questions about that we are here to help. I've read it many times but it's totally hard for me. Reason for this could be is that, it is not my field. All I want to make sure is that I'm going to buy the correct driver and amp. I tried reading and reading Rob's chart but I get more confused. I even got more confused and told myself that I might be in a wrong forum when I saw his "Price per liter" column. For a person like me, I would always relate liter to liquid. But looking at the galleries, it contradicts my thinking. I'm sure that I'm the correct forum. ;D Reading "Notable Quotables from IB owners", looks like I'm going with AE IB-15" since most people bought this. So what amp will be good for this driver? Will the IB that I will be making work well with my Yamaha receiver? I'm hoping that this IB that I will be making would make me happy like how my SVS did me for a year. But based from your responses I guys, I'm really excited about having one. All I want is a clean and tight bass. I also want to feel some air rushing to my body when I'm in couch. But the thing that captured me with IB is the word pressurizing. That's what I want to have. But again, I know that my $600 limit will prevent me from having an IB like that. Will it? |
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 25, 2006 8:30:27 GMT -7
The AE-IB15"s are no longer available. He's supposed to be bringing out a new driver, but don't hold your breath. Things happed very slowly at AE
The liter thing is how much air is moved by the in/out motion of the cone. That's what one wants for an IB, the displacement of lots of air.
If you're into cars just equate this to having a big engine with lots of displacement. Small engines don't work in an IB.
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Post by Darren on Jul 25, 2006 8:36:55 GMT -7
As far as driver choice goes here is what I'd be considering if I were in your place:
Four RL-P15 D4 15" drivers (www.soundsplinter.com) - Proven driver, very nice. $250 each plus shipping which is usually under $100 for all 4
OR
Four of the new 18" budget driver being discussed here. $50 each plus shipping which brings them to nearly $100 each driver (Shipped from Canada I believe).
For me, the amp of choice would be the EP2500 because it is only $50 more than the EP1500 and Parts Express has them on sale right now for $300 shipped. (EDIT: Corrected a mistake in the price)
The 18" drivers are sounding like they'll make a good substitute for the AE IB 15's or similar performing drivers. I'm making this assumption purely as speculation from what has been discussed here. The RL-P15's should be a step up in performance but you pay for it.
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 25, 2006 9:37:05 GMT -7
Can you please take me to the thread that talks about "Four of the new 18" budget " driver you mentioned? I would like to hear what people say about it as well. Good thing is that, I'm not in a rush since I haven't moved to the new house yet. I can save more money.  Thanks. |
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Post by Darren on Jul 25, 2006 9:53:40 GMT -7
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 25, 2006 19:03:44 GMT -7
hey folks, tell me if my plans will be ok. Looking back at my link specifically the storage, the dimension is 14'Lx5'Wx9'H. I'm planning to also frame the storage. Then on the ceiling, put double drywall and if budget permits, it will be hung using RSIC. Also, that storage will have a door. Do you guys think that will work. And also, with the way I'm planning to build my theater, should I use the linear approach or manifold?
MODIFY: Can I use my existing RXV 1400 yamaha receiver for the drivers?
Thanks for you help guys!
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 25, 2006 19:30:14 GMT -7
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 25, 2006 21:03:15 GMT -7
Hi Thomas, The reason I asked here is to get accurate answer. I wasn't sure that those folks have an IB setup. So I thought of posting it here too. Sorry if it was a bandwidth waste. Looking at the link you gave me, specifically the 'Line array options", my brain and eyes tells me that the first picture is a manifold design. Are my eyes wrong? Thanks, Neil MODIFY: I didn't see any question why an IB needs more drivers than a single driver in a box or cylinder. This one caught my attention, "it can take 2 to 4 times more drivers in an IB, to equal the output of a box sub." So why would someone pursue with IB? Again, it's not that I don't want an IB setup, in fact I really want to have it because it's so cool. But I know that there might be other reason which I didn't see in the FAQ. Again, I know subwoofers but all I know is that if it's tight, clear, etc. If you give me graphs or numbers, I'll get lost.  |
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Post by ThomasW on Jul 25, 2006 21:47:38 GMT -7
The reason I asked here is to get accurate answer. I wasn't sure that those folks have an IB setup. So I thought of posting it here too. Sorry if it was a bandwidth waste. Jack Gilvey who answered your question has used an IB sub for years Ah, if you look further down on the page you'll find this text "Line array vs manifold.....? Most people don't have a choice, they can use one or the other. If you have a choice, I vote for the line array. Line arrays offer the best performance, provided they can be properly located. The line array has an opening the size of the driver for each driver. This is an optimal situation. The only real drawback to line arrays other than their size, is that they don't cancel the mechanical vibrations like a manifold does. Some people are under the mistaken impression that drivers in a line array exert extreme mechanical forces on the structure. This isn't the case. First the mechanical forces from the drivers are working against the weight of the house. Second we're talking about the motion of a liters of air, not hydraulic pressure! The baffle for a line array should be built from a 3/4" layer of MDF, laminated to a 3/4" layer of OSB, or two layers of 3/4" OSB or plywood. If large heavy woofers are being used, I recommend oak 1"X2"s be glued on edge between each pair of drivers. This will help stiffen and add strength to the baffle. Manifolds are compact, a lot of drivers can be packed into a relatively small area. The ability to mount the drivers in opposition provides a high degree of cancellation of the mechanical forces from the drivers (note this does not mean there's less acoustical vibration transferred to the room from the sound waves themselves). The downside to a manifold is that the outlets are never as large as the multiple openings in a line array. This results in a small decrease in sound quality. The fundamental rules for manifolds are 1) make the outlet as large as possible, and 2) keep the manifold as short as possible." home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page11IB-QuotableQuotes.html |
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 26, 2006 0:07:51 GMT -7
Hi Thomas, I'm sorry if I have so many questions So with my $500-$600 budget, and since I don't really understand the numbers from the driver list, which driver from those list do you recommend to me? With my budget limit, will it allow me to have a 4 drivers + amp configuration? I also had a question earlier but it wasn't answered, can my Yamaha RXV1400 receiver be used for the those driver and IB? Thanks for your patience.  Neil |
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 26, 2006 0:25:25 GMT -7
There are only two very good reasons to build an IB
1) IBs have very low distortion.
2) IBs go very low compared with most other subs. (IBs usually go below 10Hz)
The clarity of the bass from an IB is very believable. You don't just hear deep rumbles on films and music. You hear exactly what is making the deep sound or how the sound was made.
Most ordinary subs give out nothing more than distortion after they reach their tuning point. The IB goes on down and down without spoiling the show with a mud wrestling contest.
For some people a loud and deep anonymous rumble is enough to keep them happy. Others demand much more. They want to hear what is making the deep rumble. How it started and how it stopped. Exactly how it would and should sound in the real world. Whether it was a big motorcycle, a V8, ships engines, ships cannons, a huge explosion at the refinery, a loud shot, depthcharges, a tank, a rocket, a missile, a spaceship, cars or worlds colliding, train wreck or the end of the universe. That sort of thing.
Imagine a big V8 motor with the standard factory muffler. That's how most most ordinary subwoofers sound. Soft and rumbly and woolly.
Now imagine the sports model V8 with a hot cam and straight-through performance exhaust pipes. That's an IB!
The IB sounds as deep as a mine shaft on everything it plays.
The incredible sense of reality is what really makes an IB worthwhile.
The IB is the only High Definition projector of real bass.
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Post by v1rtu0s1ty on Jul 26, 2006 1:15:27 GMT -7
BADABING!!! So can you help me choose which driver from the list I should buy without spending too much but still would go at least a little below 10hz and would really make me happy, something that would keep me doing rewind/play until DVD player gives up, and something that would really walk over my existing 20-39 Pci svs woofer. Hehehe!!! I'm so excited guys. I can't wait to move to the new house. We'll be moving there on August 25. www.4290greenfieldlanehome.com/gallery for pics Are there IB guys in Illinois? |
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brady
Full Member
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Post by brady on Jul 26, 2006 4:45:44 GMT -7
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 26, 2006 5:22:32 GMT -7
Nope! The box in the room is yours after you buiild the IB. (Despite the recommendations of your partner to the contrary!)  |
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Post by Darren on Jul 26, 2006 6:59:03 GMT -7
There are very few drivers available in your budget at this time. As I posted earlier in this thread there are the Parts Express driver choices which will run you between $130 and $150 each at the lower end of the price scale. At the higher end $$ wise you have the RL-P15's which will run you about $250 each plus shipping. Big differences between the two drivers but each will work well depending on your demand for SPL and budget. Your Yamaha receiver should be fine for filtering LFE to your subwoofer if it is an AV receiver. For the sub amp, either the EP1500, EP2500 or one of the Nady choices are the best buys at about $250 - $300. Most of the recommended drivers will give you the extended performance below 10Hz, it's how much SPL you want at those frequencies that dictates which driver and how many of them you want. Pay attention to XMAX...more is better but will cost you. I'd stick with the drivers on the chart provided here. More drivers are on the way but are several months out minimum. All laid out, here is a minimum budget IB with known to be good equipment: • 4 - 15" lower cost drivers (Parts Express) $520 • BFD $99 new • EP1500 amp $250 Total excluding any shipping charges: $869 not including MDF and other material costs which are minimal, Say $40 for hardware and wood. Now, you can always hit eBay and get some deals but it can be a craps shoot. I've been ripped off before on eBay but sometimes it can save you good $$ if you are careful. You can go cheaper, there are some 18" drivers that are being experimented with right now for about $100 each including shipping but you are going to be right around $800 (all new equipment prices) for a lower cost IB if you go with 4 drivers and don't have an amp or BFD already. $100 per driver seems to be the low cost threshold, haven't seen a driver yet that made it to your doorstep for much less. You could go with just two drivers to start though but it won't be as impressive |
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