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Post by dandan on Sept 2, 2006 17:39:49 GMT -7
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Post by crackyflipside on Sept 4, 2006 6:43:47 GMT -7
Pretty impressive excursion limits on the subs, 26mm xmax.
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ryans
Full Member
Posts: 132
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Post by ryans on Sept 4, 2006 9:13:30 GMT -7
26mm ... that's for the expensive BTL series - some sort of custom order woofer ($459 for a 26mm Xmax 18). The better values seem to be:
Q series - 27mm Xmax, 18 inch woofer for $309
SSD series - 21mm Xmax, 18 inch woofer for $239
The Q series would be a similar value as the old Ascendant Audio Avalanche closeout deal.
They both sim very well at 10x Vas. As expected, the Q can take almost 2x as much power as the SSD in the lowest octave for a gain of about 2dB.
Nice to have a few more options available. As always, it'll be good to hear from somebody who bought one.
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Post by smithski on Sept 4, 2006 9:33:25 GMT -7
These drivers do look promising...as Ryan pointed out, both of the 18's look to be a great deal @ about $47/liter of Vd.
The owner Scott used to be one of the owners (as well as "the" engineer) of Resonant Engineering. RE is fairly well known in the car audio world for making some very capable drivers.
Looks like he is just getting up and running, so don't everybody go over there and swamp him with orders! ;D
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Post by ThomasW on Sept 4, 2006 10:55:36 GMT -7
Interesting to note that shipping is included in the pricing....  Scott certainly has a good reputation and has been producing good drivers since the days of original BluePrint units... |
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Post by smithski on Sept 4, 2006 11:19:25 GMT -7
Interesting to note that shipping is included in the pricing.... Good catch Thomas...I figured shipping was extra.  Hopefully he is prepared for the surge of orders he is going to get... ;D |
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zora
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by zora on Sept 6, 2006 0:00:38 GMT -7
Great news! Scott is a good guy, I remember dealing with him on some pre-Blueprint drivers from FRC Soundworks. We can never have enough choices ;D
JP
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Post by mmoeller on Sept 6, 2006 9:33:44 GMT -7
What effect would the high (>.5) Qts values have on the Q and SSD series 18"s? Would they sound "bloated", as Thomas stated in his post on effects of Q? Would the high Qts be better suited to a smaller box, to achieve a lower Qtc? I might just be talking nonsense, made sense in my head anyway  |
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Post by ThomasW on Sept 6, 2006 15:43:24 GMT -7
What effect would the high (>.5) Qts values have on the Q and SSD series 18"s? Would they sound "bloated", as Thomas stated in his post on effects of Q? Would the high Qts be better suited to a smaller box, to achieve a lower Qtc? I might just be talking nonsense, made sense in my head anyway The smaller the box the more the "Q" goes up. |
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Post by mmoeller on Sept 7, 2006 6:46:27 GMT -7
I see. After I posted I read a little more around and thought that may be the case.
So if we can only make the Qtc go up, and at best in an IB have our Qts=Qtc. Would the Q values of these drivers be a good place to start being <.5? I suppose it would depend on the effect of the room.
Are the higher Qts values more apt to be used in car audio where the smaller boxes will raise the Q's to produce a peak in bass output rather than a flat responce we may be looking for?
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Post by ThomasW on Sept 7, 2006 7:36:17 GMT -7
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Post by mmoeller on Sept 7, 2006 8:38:51 GMT -7
I'm taking that as a yes, to high for your taste.
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Post by LunarD on Sept 7, 2006 8:59:40 GMT -7
I’ve had a couple of emails with Scott, and thought some of you my be intersed in some information he gave me.
Here is his response concerning the motor used in his subwoofers as well as the fact that he can customize them for IB:
“We make no use of shorting rings in the motor itself. There simply isn’t enough room to fit them, and those that are putting these thin copper rings in the motor are actually doing nothing to lower inductance in the sub region. It takes 5mm of copper to noticeably reduce inductance and IMD in the bass region. Thinner rings do reduce distortion at higher frequencies, but these are designed as true subwoofers and I highly doubt that you will need a lower inductance at 500 Hz. Also, those that are fitting the copper/aluminum pole caps are simply making IMD worse. Yes they reduce inductance overall, but it is in one direction (the out stroke) leaving the highest inductance direction (instroke where the coil is completely around the pole piece) unchanged. Creating a larger difference between the in and out inductance actually creates more distortion. You first try to reduce it on the instroke, then... if you can get it lower than the out, try to balance things further. While it is not the lowest distortion sub in the world (by any means) it would make for a great IB sub with excellent excursion and detail. I no longer use XBl for any subs or motor designs. While I have found several benefits to it, there are also several drawbacks for many applications. If there seemed to be enough of a call for a trult custom 18" IB sub, this is something that could be discussed as well. I do plenty of OEM work in the home audio industry and if there was a consensus of what people would want, I can definitely accommodate things with a custom driver.”
“We can also tailor them specifically for IB applications. Since each sub is custom machined in house per voice coil configuration, we can simply increase the qts and lower the fs on the subs as well. And with 27mm of Xmax, the Q18 is simply a monster for IB.”
I also asked him about discounts for multiples of 4 and 8. While no discounts for 4, he is offering $40 off each sub for 8 of them. He also said:
“If the CIB wanted to do a group buy on some custom IB 18s, I could reduce things even further depending on how many were actually purchased. Over the next few days Ill get a sample built and tested and see if I need to change things any further. What would you like to see the Fs as?”
I remember Thomas mentioning that group buys are easier said then done, so I don’t know how feasible that would be. As for what Fs I would like to see, after reading Thomas’s thread “What's all this "Q" stuff??” linked above, I don’t really know. I will definitely leave that up to the experts.
Thomas, I hope you don’t mind, but I was going give Scott a link to this thread so he can answer questions that others may have.
John
“It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.”
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Post by ThomasW on Sept 7, 2006 9:23:48 GMT -7
Having Scott reply here is fine.
Personally I would want drivers with a lower "Q" not a higher one.
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Post by penngray on Sept 7, 2006 19:28:20 GMT -7
Count me in for 4 18" custom IB if there is a group purchase. I need 4 18" for my IB project.
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Post by ficaraudio on Sept 7, 2006 23:20:05 GMT -7
ThomasW... lower qts is is doable as well Since we do a good amount of machine work on the motors in house, lowering the qts isnt much of an issue either. I would also use a different spider on them to lower Fs as well. The only real issue with the Q is that the surround is somewhat stiffer than I would like to use on an IB specific sub (it is designed for car use). In the past I have done OEM with the same surround profile, but significantly softer... Im sure it wouldnt be an issue to do it again. As I believe I mentioned to someone else in an email tonight, the inductance on the Q isnt low (Ill have to check for a specific value at work tomorrow). And with the Q motor, there simply isnt any room to put any sort of useful inductance ring. Considering that they are to be used as a true subwoofer, you would really need a substantial ring to lower the inductance a useful amount. Thanks... Scott |
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Post by ThomasW on Sept 8, 2006 7:47:54 GMT -7
Hi Scott,
Having used the old BP1503s, and others, I'm pretty familar with the effects of higher Le drivers. We're not advocating these drivers for crossover points higher than about 80Hz. So a highish Le isn't a big deal.
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Post by penngray on Sept 20, 2006 4:33:07 GMT -7
Couple of questions on the Q18s.
There are Dual 1, Dual 2s to choose from which one would be better for IB. What modifications discussed above should I ask for?
Also it says Displacement is 0.24cuft which is 6.8 litres (I think). That makes this a damn good driver when compariing to Rob's driver comparison chart, doesnt it? I dont see it on the chart though.
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Post by ThomasW on Sept 20, 2006 7:45:42 GMT -7
Since this is an all volunteer organization, the chart is updated when he gets around to it.
The choice of drivers depends on how many are being used and how they're going to be wired to the amp.
For the best performance it's wise to wire the individual VC's on any driver in series, then parallel the drivers together. Doing that the maintains the better damping than putting everything is series.
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Post by worldleader1 on Oct 15, 2006 12:24:34 GMT -7
I have a quick question...
If I am looking to build a floor-mounted IB that vents into a crawl-space, would it be best to go with 4 of those Canadian (Mach 5) drivers or two of these FI SSD18" drivers? I want the best bang-for-the-buck, but I also want good fidelity. The big jump between 8ohm and 2ohm, what does it mean for sound quality?
Also, would the EP1500 be able to drive 2 SSD18" drivers? Should I go for the EP2500 instead?
Also, I've never done this before so wiring will be a trick. What is the best way to wire these puppies?
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