atabb
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by atabb on Jul 22, 2007 8:33:46 GMT -7
I was going through some of my older bookmarks and happened to hit the old AE forum within hours of the first post in over a year - from John. There's a brief overview of his plans with an announcement of a sale of some 15"s next week. Too late for me as I went the LTT route rather than IB, but good to see he's back on track. I know his products were well thought of here, hence this thread and link: www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/
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Post by aespeakers on Jul 26, 2007 21:49:37 GMT -7
Hi Everyone, Yes, we are back up and running after a long, long, LONG time. At least it felt that way to me. I've spent nearly 2 years somewhat in hiding while I was designing drivers, sourcing product, designing production equipment, etc etc. I'll have some very cool stuff for IB woofers within about a week or so. I'll get a hold of Thomas and send him the information and he can pass it on as he sees fit since it is his forum. I'll be glad to answer any questions on here, but I don't want to post any info on my drivers without his permission first. Hopefully you will be seeing some info up within a week or so. John
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Post by cowanaudio on Jul 30, 2007 19:19:00 GMT -7
The problem is irrespective of how good the drivers are, too many people like myself have been burned. Nobody wants to send money away to never see product. I gave up after 12 months of broken promises over an order (#322) placed 8/09/2005. I was told at the time of order and several times after that the stock was on the shelf.
I've dealt with all the big players in the DIY audio community and so far this is the only time I've been ripped off.
Cheers
William Cowan
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Post by chrisbee on Jul 31, 2007 9:50:33 GMT -7
I wonder what the claimed driver specs are worth this time around?
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Post by aespeakers on Aug 1, 2007 1:48:27 GMT -7
The problem is irrespective of how good the drivers are, too many people like myself have been burned. Nobody wants to send money away to never see product. I gave up after 12 months of broken promises over an order (#322) placed 8/09/2005. I was told at the time of order and several times after that the stock was on the shelf. I've dealt with all the big players in the DIY audio community and so far this is the only time I've been ripped off. Cheers William Cowan Hi William, I appologize if you never got your package. I worked very hard to try to take care of everyone throughout that time period but things were very difficult. I did see an email from you just now that was unread from 12/5/05 stating your PR's were missing in action. period I just saw this message and pulled up your order #322 which was for a pair of 15" 1050gram PR's placed 9/07/05. From our records and the record on the store, you were charged on 9/21/05 and the PR's shipped 9/23/05. This was one box with the two PR's shipping to Australia via usps surface. I also have the email sent to you on 9/7/05 with the quotes for shipping specifically stating that there is no tracking number available for surface shipping and that it typically takes 4-6 weeks. Unfortunately it seems that about 25% of the packages I sent the surface option over the years never arrived. The only place we had good luck shipping to with USPS was Canada. That said, if you didn't get your PR's I'll be glad to send you the money back or the PR's now, or something else if you want it. I tried to make things right with anyone who ordered through that time period, but it was a difficult time to say the least. I lost my mother in June 2005 and just before then the mother of my two daughters walked out leaving me with two girls, 6 weeks, and 3yrs old to take care of on my own. My father got sick a few weeks after my mother died and passed away in Jan 2006. It was a very difficult time being 28, losing both of my parents, and having no family at all to help with the girls. I did the best I could having no money to find people to help with the girls, but my work time was limited. Because of the way the system works, even though the girls were left 100% in my custody, it took nearly a year before I was able to receive medical or childcare assistance so I could work full time. I had been in a constant battle with the bank threatening to foreclose on the shop ever since my previous woofer supplier took all my money and ran. Just a few weeks after my mother died, they officially started the foreclosure process. I had no money to pay the bills and often had to bring things home to work on in my garage or kitchen once the girls were in bed at night. Other times I worked at the shop with no heat or electricity to try to finish jobs so I could collect money and get the power turned back on. It wasn't until Jan 2006 when my father passed away that things changed. It was not the way I wanted it to happen by any means, but when he passed away I was left enough money to not only get the shop out of foreclosure, but pay off the 18 yr mortgage completely. I finally had money to put my girls in daycare so I could work full time. I had enough money to live on so I could take the time to design and build the production equipment I needed, design and source parts, and make building woofers an efficient process. I'm sorry if you didn't get your PR's. Until now, I was never aware there was even a problem until now. I'll be glad to make things right in whatever way I can, whether it be a refund, new set of PR's and I'll pay the air shipping, whatever it is. If there is anyone else I have overlooked somehow, please let me know and I will do everything I can to take care of it. It was never my intent to burn anyone. John
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Post by chrisbee on Aug 1, 2007 5:31:38 GMT -7
John
My sincere sympathies for your tragic losses and the difficulties you have encountered.
Best regards Chris
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Post by exipnos on Aug 1, 2007 8:27:57 GMT -7
As a father of three small children I have a lot of sympathy for you. Its hard to support and ensure the well being of the family even with two parents. I can not imagine how hard it would be alone!
I've heard a lot of good things about your drivers. I hope you get your company back in order. I will eventually have funds for a IB project and I will definitely consider ordering when that time comes.
Regards,
Exipnos
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Post by cowanaudio on Aug 5, 2007 4:31:33 GMT -7
G'day John
I appreciate you were going through a pretty rough time, that's why I chose to keep this problem private for over a year. That's about the point where I ran out of patience.
>From our records and the record on the store, you were charged on 9/21/05 and the PR's shipped 9/23/05. This was one box with the two PR's shipping to Australia via usps surface.
This is pretty interesting considering an email that came from Deon, who was working for you at the time, dated Jan 21st, 2006:
>"I looked into this. John had a person helping around the shop for a while, who did more to hurt his business than help. I won't get into details - but apparently he charged your order and never told John. John found out about the order roughly a month after it was placed and charged, and hasn't had enough money to send your PR's to you since he found out. "
>"At the moment unless we sell the rest of the built AV's, he still cannot ship them. He has the product, and if you can be patient a little more - we will get it to you as promised."
Of the dozen or so attempts to contact you or someone else at the shop, this was from one of the few replies I ever received.
I appreciate you trying to sort out this problem now. There were several others who left messages on your forum about problems with orders. To the best of my knowledge many of these were never resolved. Unfortunately none of these forums from your webpage are still up, hopefully you still have a copy so you can attempt to contact the others whose orders that have fallen by the way. I would love to once and for all put this one to bed. For the last year I have been steering people away from doing business with you, and toward a more responsive company. ThomasW once mentioned on these forums that at times you have been slow processing orders, but you never actually ripped anyone off. I'd love to be able to come back to these forums and tell the folks he was right.
Cheers
William Cowan
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Post by aespeakers on Aug 5, 2007 7:38:51 GMT -7
Hi William,
To the best of my knowledge as I said, everyone had been taken care of. If there are others I missed, please tell them to contact me. Once my father died and I had some money, the first thing I did was take care of any outstanding issues. I got the shop out of foreclosure, got the lights turned back on, paid up all my medical bills, and refunded anyone I needed to. Like I said, I didn't realize there were any people I hadn't taken care of.
As far as the email from Deon goes, I don't have that email, and don't know what he said to many people even. Do you have a date it was sent? It must have been early 2006 as that is when he was helping me out. I don't remember your order specifically from back then though. It's impossible to remember every order without looking at the computer records. Honestly that year was such a mess I choose not to remember a lot of it. All I can go on now is what was stated on the online store and its marked shipped, so to me it looks like it had shipped on 9/23/05. Deon is correct that I had someone helping out back then for about a 2 month period in August and September 05. That year I was too busy with all the mess that was going on, so someone else did a lot of the work. Yes things got very bad because of it and things got charged that weren't in stock. As I said, I thought I had taken care of all of these situations.
The only email I see to me from you was the one on 12/01/05 that I mentioned I had never even seen. At that time work was the last thing in my mind. My dad was very sick and a month later I spent 3 days in the hospital as he passed away. I'll admit that for several months when deon was helping, I wasn't available in the business at all. Work was the last thing I had on my mind. The emails piled up. I had spent months going through email after email trying to catch up. The 50-100 spam emails a day made it very hard to get through everything.
Like I said though, I'd like to make this right with you now. Let me know what you'd like to do. If you no longer have need for the PR's then I can give you a refund. Just let me know which way you'd like to go. If you want to take that off the forum for now, email me at john@aespeakers.com As I said, if there is anyone else I missed, please have them contact me also.
John
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Post by cowanaudio on Aug 5, 2007 21:31:10 GMT -7
G'day John
More than happy to take our banter off ThomasW's IB Cult forum.
You have mail.
Cheers
William Cowan
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Post by cowanaudio on Oct 16, 2007 3:01:37 GMT -7
It's been a long wait but I'm delighted to announce that this issue has been resolved to my satisfaction. ;D
John's product is of excellent quality and if he can sort out his customer service problems I'm sure he will do well. With more and more product being outsourced to Asia it's refreshing to see a business that's keeping production at home.
All the best
William Cowan
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Post by norpus on Oct 16, 2007 5:56:23 GMT -7
Good to hear Well done John and patience rewarded Bill
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Post by Darren on Oct 16, 2007 9:23:55 GMT -7
You guys crack me up. Yeasrs of delay and lies and now, because of a new product line coming out he makes good on an old deal gone bad and all is hunky dory? Gimme a break. I've seen this exact cycle before. No different than before.
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inm8
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by inm8 on Oct 16, 2007 11:43:23 GMT -7
You guys crack me up. Yeasrs of delay and lies and now, because of a new product line coming out he makes good on an old deal gone bad and all is hunky dory? Gimme a break. I've seen this exact cycle before. No different than before. Your that surprised? I think it's only fair to give him a second chance, after all, we'll learn pretty quickly if things are not what they seem. I'm not going to sing praises, because I haven't bought anything and experienced the new & improved customer service, but I'll certainly consider it now that I see things improving. If they haven't, well then as I mentioned, the news will spread like wildfire through all of the audio forums anyway. Good work John, and I hope to here many more positive experiences from your customers.
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Post by cowanaudio on Oct 16, 2007 15:32:56 GMT -7
G'day Darren, All
In the end John did what he could to make the best of a bad situation. He dug deep into his own pockets and sent me a "sweetener" to make up for the silly long wait. This was a nice gesture that I appreciated a lot. It showed me that John realised he had done wrong by me and was attempting to make up for it. At the end of the day I'm sure feedback from customers is appreciated by all so we can make an educated decision when we're choosing vendors.
Cheers
William Cowan
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Post by aespeakers on Oct 18, 2007 9:36:01 GMT -7
You guys crack me up. Yeasrs of delay and lies and now, because of a new product line coming out he makes good on an old deal gone bad and all is hunky dory? Gimme a break. I've seen this exact cycle before. No different than before. Hi Darren, I'm not sure why you are upset with me. If you have an issue with something I have done to you, please let me know. I don't appreciate being called a liar though. I have aired probably much more of my personal life than I should have and have been truthful about everything. I don't care to talk about that anymore. I got into DIY speakers because I loved it. It was my passion and still is. I'm definitely not in this for the money. Every month I struggle to keep a roof over my head and put food on the table for my 2 girls. I could work at many different factory jobs and take home more money and spend more time with my family. My goal was to provide something of value to people and I haven't given up on that dream. To have woofers that live up to what they are supposed to. That was my goal and still is my goal. It was never my plan to take money from people and run with it, and I have thousands of customers to testify to that. Anyway, you can believe what you wish about me. If you ever go through the losses I went through and all the heartache I faced, you may understand. I don't want people to feel sorry for me and what I've been through. My life now is where I had hoped it would be 5 years ago and things are finally moving forward. All I asked for was a chance to make things right with those I hurt and most people are happy with the outcome, even if it took a long time to make up for it. I was difficult to get ahold of, I admit that. I was always just one person to do everything. If I was building woofers, people were mad I wasn't building cabinets, or answering the phone, or answering emails, etc. There was no way to do everything at once. Now I have 4 people working for me. Jodi is in the office everyday to answer the phone and get messages to me. We have woofers in stock to ship the same day. Things are not the same as they once were. You can choose to believe it or not believe it. It makes no difference to me because I know the truth. Please don't tell people I am lying though when you have no idea what I have really been through and what my motivation is. John
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Post by zedguy on Oct 18, 2007 10:36:36 GMT -7
I can understand the frustration people have had with John in the past but in all my dealings with him he has been above board. His products offer incredible value and are unique to the market. I place my trust in him and will most certainly deal with him in the future.
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 18, 2007 12:42:51 GMT -7
John
Believe me that I am not trying to make your life any more difficult than it is already: I am actually trying to help.
I have just tried your AE website using both FF and IE and none of the links seem to work.
How would a potential customer find out what you presently have to offer? I have tried and cannot discover anything using your website.
If you don't sell product you can't survive.
What are you able to sell from stock right now? People here are actively discussing IB15s as real options for their planned IBs. Can you supply? Or not?
I have emailed you using your IB Cult identity email address since you did not respond to my last email concerning your ability to accept Paypal for the four IB15 drivers you have already promised me.
Regards Chris
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Post by aespeakers on Oct 18, 2007 20:53:05 GMT -7
John Believe me that I am not trying to make your life any more difficult than it is already: I am actually trying to help. I have just tried your AE website using both FF and IE and none of the links seem to work. How would a potential customer find out what you presently have to offer? I have tried and cannot discover anything using your website. If you don't sell product you can't survive. What are you able to sell from stock right now? People here are actively discussing IB15s as real options for their planned IBs. Can you supply? Or not? I have emailed you using your IB Cult identity email address since you did not respond to my last email concerning your ability to accept Paypal for the four IB15 drivers you have already promised me. Regards Chris The biggest thing right now is that we don't have parts for our own product line yet. We DO have everything for IB15's and have about 50 of them in stock ready to ship out. Until we get more product line together the website probably wont' be finished. Right now the only link that actually exists is to the forum. Sometime in the future, probably late november, we will start producing other drivers from our standard product line. At that point the website will get fully put together. Right now it isn't practical to have only one product on the site. I don't want to mislead people to thinking we have product when we really don't yet. I probably should put up an update about the IB15's being in stock, but just haven't had time. The forum has the latest info and I try to answer questions as quickly as I can there and post updates on what's going on. Most of what I'm doing now is waiting on sample parts for final approval, and doing OEM prototypes. Our previous cone/surround supplier used our tooling for another customer and modified all the tools. Therefore they can no longer supply us cones. So I had to pay another $15,000 in tooling for cones elsewhere. Big mess. As far as your email, I was waiting to hear back from you and haven't seen anything. I just checked my email, which is the john at AE email and don't see anything from you recently. I cant' check the sales email from home, but I will tomorrow. I haven't seen anything from you recently though. In any case, we do have over 50 IB15's in stock and ready to go out same day. Easiest way would be to call Jodi in the office to place the order. John
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Post by chrisbee on Oct 18, 2007 23:56:29 GMT -7
John
You have a website! Tell people in short and simple terms your present situation and your expectations. It has never been easier to communicate with the entire world than it is today.
If you tell people exactly what your are doing then you save yourself wading through hundreds of pointless enquiry emails and having to answer them individually. It takes only a few lines of text on your website. There is no shame in being in a state of preparation for manufacture. Tell the world where you stand now! Then update when you have moved forwards.
Communicate with your potential and existing customers. Tell them in short understandable terms where you are now and where you are going soon.
By your own words you haven't time to wade through mails. You are already missing some. Including mine! This suggests your need to lower your communication workload or miss orders.
Time wasters and wannabes are probably a terrible waste of effort and staff wages for any company these days. An email costs them nothing but costs you valuable time which you simply cannot afford.
Short circuit their enquiries by giving them enough information to choke on long before they even think about sending that email.
Give them full dimensions, prices, freight charges to Outer Mongolia, India and right next door. Give them all the TS parameters whether useful or not, suitable box sizes in various alignments, thickness of panels, port sizes, amplifier power max & min. cut-out sizes, OD, dimensions required for IB, suitability to this, that and the other thing, etc. You only have to do it once!
Leave nothing out. Give them more information than they will ever need. Place that information where it is easily accessible on your website in large enough text for the semi-illiterate without them having to search.
Then have a very polite standard response email pointing timewasters at your website for the information they have requested. Or have a standard file ready to copy over to your answering email covering every aspect of a particular product exactly like your website ready to send to lazy enquirers.
You are not in the business of writing individual emails to pointless enquiries made by daydreamers. You are in manufacturing. Can you actually afford to answer individual enquiries on your forum? Let the members guess the answers for you based on enough information to kill a cat.
Many email enquiries will hinge directly on freight charges. Particularly outside the US. Give the world enough information to stop them sending an enquiry email just to see if they can afford to buy from you. Remind them that local taxes will apply to the total order and the freight charges. If you lose an order as a result they weren't ready to buy anyway and you will save answering their email. Freight charges and taxes can easily double your factory prices by the time the product reaches their front door. Take the guesswork out of their false optimism before they send a pointless email which will only disappoint both of you.
Why are you paying for another company to tool up to make you components? Is this normal? Did you pay for your previous supplier's tooling? Did they refund you when they damaged your tools by modifying them? Are there no existing components already available from an existing stock line which would work?
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